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Well im 20 and i want to get into aviation. I understand you have to go through some medical evaluations and get some type of medical certificate. well i have a problem. When i was younger my parents got disability benefits for me cause i was allegedly suffering from ADD, Anxiety, depression, and i was supposely a schizo. none of which are true. They just said it to get money so that we could get by. Can i get re-evaluated and prove i dont have these conditions? At the same time i dont want to talk with the social security office and get my parents introuble for something old either. as you can see im in a bit of a situation lol and i really want to get started on my PPL asap. thanks in advance.
 
Unregistered said:
Well im 20 and i want to get into aviation. I understand you have to go through some medical evaluations and get some type of medical certificate. well i have a problem. When i was younger my parents got disability benefits for me cause i was allegedly suffering from ADD, Anxiety, depression, and i was supposely a schizo. none of which are true. They just said it to get money so that we could get by. Can i get re-evaluated and prove i dont have these conditions? At the same time i dont want to talk with the social security office and get my parents introuble for something old either. as you can see im in a bit of a situation lol and i really want to get started on my PPL asap. thanks in advance.
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Wait for Dr Bruce to reply. Take his advice. The required tests/evaluation may not be cheap.
 
im new to this site, how do i get dr, bruce to reply? also im willing to do what ever it takes. thanks for the reply by the way
 
He's a forum member, and very busy, but graciously helps with medical questions. He'll be by soon with an answer. You can also visit or hire him direct if you so choose for assistance. See www.aeromedicaldoc.com for more info.
 
To the OP Dr. Bruce will reply to the thread. He reviews these and although busy replys in a pretty timely fashion, usually within a few days.

As for getting your folks in trouble well it is likely that:

1) The statute of limitations has passed
2) A re-diagnosis if even possible will not in and of itself implicate your parents SS fraud.

Don't let your parents mistakes when you were younger prevent you from TRYING to pursue your passion. Hang tight and wait for Bruce to chime in. Finally when he gives you advice take it and follow it, the guy knows his stuff and too many here have sought his advice and then debated it with him. Just listen and do what he says.

I hope this works out for you! Best of Luck!
 
Pending Doc's pronouncements, would caution you to NOT get any further examinations or diagnoses unless and until you have a clear path defined by Dr. Bruce or equivalent (which, as it works out, pretty much means, "Dr. Bruce").
 
Two options Sport and/or Glider pilot.
Or, a bunch of tests to establish that you don't have the problem now.

Whatever you do, don't walk into an AME until you know you can pass.
 
There is incredible pressure to label kids with a medical diagnosis that in the past would have been considered nothing more than run of the mill misbehavior..
 
Dumb question: Were you actually diagnosed (however wrong it may have been) by a doctor, or did your parents just claim it with no back up documentation?

If there was no doctor involved, this could be easy, but let Dr. Bruce be the final answer on that.
 
Unregistered said:
Well im 20 and i want to get into aviation. I understand you have to go through some medical evaluations and get some type of medical certificate. well i have a problem. When i was younger my parents got disability benefits for me cause i was allegedly suffering from ADD, Anxiety, depression, and i was supposely a schizo. none of which are true. They just said it to get money so that we could get by. Can i get re-evaluated and prove i dont have these conditions? At the same time i dont want to talk with the social security office and get my parents introuble for something old either. as you can see im in a bit of a situation lol and i really want to get started on my PPL asap. thanks in advance.
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THAT is a complex situation and the only way it's worth talking to the FAA is to go forearmed with a HIMS psychologist evaluation. There are about 30 teams of Psychologist+psychiatrist in the USA, and they are pricey. Think $4,500 as the best that I have ever seen. The evals are TWO FULL DAYS and multiple tests as well as day long oral evaluations.

This may be nothing or it may be something. But remember, when you apply, the administrator can only do two things: Approve or DENY. Do NOT initiate any application until you know already, outside, to FAA standards, that you have it in the bag.

PS. The FAA does not use community DSM-4 standards. They have a tougher useage of the ~12 or so criteria for many of the diagnoses; they in many cases ignore the other ten if you have one of the other two postiive, and then in their eyes for aeromedical purposes, you HAVE the diagnosis.

The ultimate cost of not having your kids properly evaluated is your situation. But in defense of your parents, "it's a Rumsfeld". Sometimes you have to go with what you've got, and "you can only know what you know". Not everyone can have Ph.D or MA level parents, or even an MD for a mom. Sigh.
 
And depending on your aviation ambitions you might consider going for a Sport Pilot and/or glider license since neither require a medical exam. But once you try for an airman's medical cert for a PPL, if you fail the SP and glider options are no longer available.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Two options Sport and/or Glider pilot.
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Not with a documented history of schizophrenia (whether that history is accurate or not). I have no doubt the FAA will say that history renders the OP "unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner," regardless of the category or class of aircraft until that history is overturned by later medical findings.

14 CFR 61.53 said:
(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in Sec. 61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.
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As the OP has already posted that s/he knows of that history, there is no getting away from that paragraph of 61.23 which covers Light Sport operations with a DL as well as gliders and balloons.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Not with a documented history of schizophrenia (whether that history is accurate or not). I have no doubt the FAA will say that history renders the OP "unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner," regardless of the category or class of aircraft until that history is overturned by later medical findings.
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The FAA says "Discuss with your family doctor". If you have a drivers license and a agreement with your doctor, then you have jumped through all of the necessary hoops. There is no need to second guess what the FAA may or may not "have to say".

Glider pilots have been flying with no (or even denied) medicals since the Wright brothers. Has the FAA ever gone after a glider pilot for a "past diagnosis"?
 
Also ultralights, hanggliders, paragliders, and skydiving are also nonmedical options to get in the air. More fun then cookie cutter GA anyway.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The FAA says "Discuss with your family doctor". If you have a drivers license and a agreement with your doctor, then you have jumped through all of the necessary hoops. There is no need to second guess what the FAA may or may not "have to say".

Glider pilots have been flying with no (or even denied) medicals since the Wright brothers. Has the FAA ever gone after a glider pilot for a "past diagnosis"?
Click to expand...

I'm glad some one else corrected the Maven so I didn't have to.
 
bbchien said:
THAT is a complex situation and the only way it's worth talking to the FAA is to go forearmed with a HIMS psychologist evaluation. There are about 30 teams of Psychologist+psychiatrist in the USA, and they are pricey. Think $4,500 as the best that I have ever seen. The evals are TWO FULL DAYS and multiple tests as well as day long oral evaluations.

This may be nothing or it may be something. But remember, when you apply, the administrator can only do two things: Approve or DENY. Do NOT initiate any application until you know already, outside, to FAA standards, that you have it in the bag.

PS. The FAA does not use community DSM-4 standards. They have a tougher useage of the ~12 or so criteria for many of the diagnoses; they in many cases ignore the other ten if you have one of the other two postiive, and then in their eyes for aeromedical purposes, you HAVE the diagnosis.

The ultimate cost of not having your kids properly evaluated is your situation. But in defense of your parents, "it's a Rumsfeld". Sometimes you have to go with what you've got, and "you can only know what you know". Not everyone can have Ph.D or MA level parents, or even an MD for a mom. Sigh.
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thanks for the reply DR bruce. So if i were to pay $4,500 for a HIMS psychologist evaluation, and they were to confirm that i dont have any such conditions would i be in the clear to get started on my PPL?

btw thank you all for your replies. very much appreciated.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The FAA says "Discuss with your family doctor". If you have a drivers license and a agreement with your doctor, then you have jumped through all of the necessary hoops. There is no need to second guess what the FAA may or may not "have to say".
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Like I said -- there will have to be a finding by a doctor to contradict the documented history of schizophrenia. I doubt too many primary care physicians will go on record on such a matter without clearing all the hoops Bruce described.

Glider pilots have been flying with no (or even denied) medicals since the Wright brothers. Has the FAA ever gone after a glider pilot for a "past diagnosis"?
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I have no idea, and it really doesn't matter, anyway.
 
Ron Levy said:
What were you going to correct -- the part where I said you'd have to get a later medical finding that you aren't schizophrenic? :dunno:
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Assuming everything the OP said is true, the OP doesn't even need to consult his family doctor for Sport Pilot. He is not aware of any condition that would make him unsafe to fly.

He was a minor and his parents made a fraudulent claim for benefits, quite common.
 
vintage cessna said:
Assuming everything the OP said is true, the OP doesn't even need to consult his family doctor for Sport Pilot. He is not aware of any condition that would make him unsafe to fly.

He was a minor and his parents made a fraudulent claim for benefits, quite common.
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It sounds like you're saying 61.53 doesn't apply because he knows he's not schizophrenic even though his medical records say he is. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. From the FAA's perspective, the existence of that medical history, and his admitted awareness of it, means he does have reason to know. Heck, the FAA has even burned MD's who have claimed they knew the diagnosis of another MD was wrong so they didn't really "have reason to know" and thus could continue flying. See Administrator v. Rose on that -- emergency revocation sustained by the NTSB.

On top of that, how much is the tale of someone with a documented history of schizophrenia worth in this sort of case? "Trust me -- I'm not crazy, even if the doctors said I was." :rolleyes: The standard in these cases is not "beyond reasonable doubt," but just "preponderance of the evidence," aka the "51% test." If you have the unsubstantiated claim of an individual versus the medical records on that person, which do you think the ALJ will say is more likely to be correct?

All things considered, I guess that not only are you not a CFI, you're not an attorney, either. :sigh:
 
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which is the exact reason I'm willing to be evaluated to prove i have no such conditions. Forget whether i say i have these conditions or not. we'll leave that up to the psychologist. But once the evaluations come back with the green light. Will I, with this new documentation be in the clear to get started on my PPL
 
The OP says he's 20 and the events happened when he was 'younger'. If he was in middle school, then that's maybe 6-7 yrs ago?

His parents "...just said it to get money so that we could get by."

I don't know where the money was coming from, Social Security disabilities? Can something like that happen without a medical diagnosis?

OP might ought to round up all his medical records. Only way he's going to know what's actually on file and needs to be challenged. It might also lead to a whole new round of questions.
 
Unregistered said:
which is the exact reason I'm willing to be evaluated to prove i have no such conditions.
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I'm glad you understand the situation better than some of those posting about it.

Forget whether i say i have these conditions or not. we'll leave that up to the psychologist. But once the evaluations come back with the green light. Will I, with this new documentation be in the clear to get started on my PPL
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Read what Bruce said above. There probably aren't a dozen people in the USA who are more qualified to answer that question.
 
Unregistered said:
Well im 20 and i want to get into aviation. I understand you have to go through some medical evaluations and get some type of medical certificate. well i have a problem. When i was younger my parents got disability benefits for me cause i was allegedly suffering from ADD, Anxiety, depression, and i was supposely a schizo. none of which are true. They just said it to get money so that we could get by. Can i get re-evaluated and prove i dont have these conditions? At the same time i dont want to talk with the social security office and get my parents introuble for something old either. as you can see im in a bit of a situation lol and i really want to get started on my PPL asap. thanks in advance.
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One or the other, you can't have both. If you want to clear the record to attain an FAA medical; your parents will get in trouble and it will be your 8500 that gets it all started. Social Security is known to look at and prosecute through statements made on FAA medical applications.
 
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Henning said:
One or the other, you can't have both. If you want to clear the record to attain an FAA medical; your parents will get in trouble and it will be your 8500 that gets it all started. Social Security is known to look at and prosecute through statements made on FAA medical applications.
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There's got to be a statute of limitations on that and it shouldn't take an expensive lawyer to find out what that is. Besides, AFaIK, the OP doesn't have to prove that the original diagnosis was incorrect (let alone fraudulent) at the time, just that it's not true today. And finally, IIRC the only crosstalk between federal assistance and the FAA was in the other direction, i.e. some pilot's got their cert's revoked because they made a disability claim for something that was medically disqualifying but failed to mention the condition to their AME (or the AME failed to report it to the FAA). Do you have any credible evidence that someone ran afoul of the law for claiming a disability that they later proved to be false for the FAA?
 
Ron Levy said:
It sounds like you're saying 61.53 doesn't apply because he knows he's not schizophrenic even though his medical records say he is. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. From the FAA's perspective, the existence of that medical history, and his admitted awareness of it, means he does have reason to know. Heck, the FAA has even burned MD's who have claimed they knew the diagnosis of another MD was wrong so they didn't really "have reason to know" and thus could continue flying. See Administrator v. Rose on that -- emergency revocation sustained by the NTSB.

On top of that, how much is the tale of someone with a documented history of schizophrenia worth in this sort of case? "Trust me -- I'm not crazy, even if the doctors said I was." :rolleyes: The standard in these cases is not "beyond reasonable doubt," but just "preponderance of the evidence," aka the "51% test." If you have the unsubstantiated claim of an individual versus the medical records on that person, which do you think the ALJ will say is more likely to be correct?

All things considered, I guess that not only are you not a CFI, you're not an attorney, either. :sigh:
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The OP's record indicate schizophrenia? Where did you get that info? You don't care about the facts do you? The only info given by the OP was that his parents made some claims and received benefits. The kid probably has never seen his childhood medical records. You have no idea what any doctor has told the OP. Do you even know if the OP has a drivers license?
 
Ron Levy said:
Like I said -- there will have to be a finding by a doctor to contradict the documented history of schizophrenia. I doubt too many primary care physicians will go on record on such a matter without clearing all the hoops Bruce described.

I have no idea, and it really doesn't matter, anyway.
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You don't waste any time jumping to conclusions, do you? What documented history? How the heck would you know what a primary care doctor, after looking at the facts would advise. And it is advice, not approval or disapproval.
 
vintage cessna said:
You don't waste any time jumping to conclusions, do you? What documented history? How the heck would you know what a primary care doctor, after looking at the facts would advise. And it is advice, not approval or disapproval.
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The one that was used to claim Social Security benefits; that requires a documented history to set forth and sustain the claim.
 
Ron Levy said:
It sounds like you're saying 61.53 doesn't apply because he knows he's not schizophrenic even though his medical records say he is. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. From the FAA's perspective, the existence of that medical history, and his admitted awareness of it, means he does have reason to know. Heck, the FAA has even burned MD's who have claimed they knew the diagnosis of another MD was wrong so they didn't really "have reason to know" and thus could continue flying. See Administrator v. Rose on that -- emergency revocation sustained by the NTSB.

On top of that, how much is the tale of someone with a documented history of schizophrenia worth in this sort of case? "Trust me -- I'm not crazy, even if the doctors said I was." :rolleyes: The standard in these cases is not "beyond reasonable doubt," but just "preponderance of the evidence," aka the "51% test." If you have the unsubstantiated claim of an individual versus the medical records on that person, which do you think the ALJ will say is more likely to be correct?

All things considered, I guess that not only are you not a CFI, you're not an attorney, either. :sigh:
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Again, you don't know what he was diagnosed with. I see a difference between an adult being told something by a doctor and a kid who was used by his parents to receive benefits. If what the OP is saying is true, I think he could honestly say he knows of no condition that would make him unsafe. Does he still see medical professionals as an adult, is he on meds? Did a doctor tell him or his parents he should refrain from certain activities? Maybe they got benefits because he was learning disabled.
 
Henning said:
The one that was used to claim Social Security benefits; that requires a documented history to set forth and sustain the claim.
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A documented history of what? You can get Social Security benefits for a lot of things.
 
vintage cessna said:
A documented history of what? You can get Social Security benefits for a lot of things.
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Without supporting documentation??? So I can just tell Social Security that I am a quadriplegic and they will send me a nice check without any supporting documentation. Not in my experience of how government bureaucracy works (and I am retiring on a government pension next month).
 
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alfadog said:
Without supporting documentation??? So I can just tell Social Security that I am a quadriplegic and they will send me a nice check without any supporting documentation. Not in my experience of how government bureaucracy works (and I am retiring on a government pension next month).
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The WSJ ran a series of articles on the alarming rise of the number of people receiving SS disability benefits. In some locales , WVa being one, it was incredibly easy to be approved for disability benefits. The OP's parents may have been approved for childrens benefits with just documentation from social workers and teachers.
 
vintage cessna said:
A documented history of what? You can get Social Security benefits for a lot of things.
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According to the OP various issues that are disqualifying for an Airman Medical; that's all that matters. If he gives an accurate history and is honest there and here, there is no way to get a medical without proving to the FAA there were fraudulent claims against the system made. He's got a mess that will not be pretty to clean up.
 
Henning said:
According to the OP various issues that are disqualifying for an Airman Medical; that's all that matters. If he gives an accurate history and is honest there and here, there is no way to get a medical without proving to the FAA there were fraudulent claims against the system made. He's got a mess that will not be pretty to clean up.
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Just for argument sake, let's assume the disability was received based on reports from social workers and teachers. Does the OP have to check the boxes "yes" on the medical form?
 
vintage cessna said:
Just for argument sake, let's assume the disability was received based on reports from social workers and teachers. Does the OP have to check the boxes "yes" on the medical form?
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The OP will definitely have to check the "yes" box regarding disability benefits, and then explain it in block 19. If the explanation reads like the OP's first post, I'm as sure as I can be that there will be no issuance without further evaluation.
 
vintage cessna said:
The WSJ ran a series of articles on the alarming rise of the number of people receiving SS disability benefits. In some locales , WVa being one, it was incredibly easy to be approved for disability benefits. The OP's parents may have been approved for childrens benefits with just documentation from social workers and teachers.
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Hmmm, if there is no medical diagnosis then there is no "known" medical condition, wouldn't you say? I could easily take the viewpoint that I don't care what my parents said, if there is no valid diagnosis then there is no condition. Big question still unanswered, OP, did they drug you? If so then that would be evidence of a medical diagnosis.
 
alfadog said:
Hmmm, if there is no medical diagnosis then there is no "known" medical condition, wouldn't you say? I could easily take the viewpoint that I don't care what my parents said, if there is no valid diagnosis then there is no condition. Big question still unanswered, OP, did they drug you? If so then that would be evidence of a medical diagnosis.
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they gave me a medication to try once and i never did. and within all the years they never prescribed me anything else nor did i take anything else. So after that one time never again was a prescribed anything but they still kept providing benefits.
 
also it wasn't any medication for schizophrenia it was for my so called depression. This was years ago when i was in my teens. I don't think it has anything to do with depression, i hit puberty, my hormones were changing and i was acting out in school. I don't have a learning disability or nor am i depressed. Lets say for some reason in some way i did have these conditions. cant i prove i don't have them today. I mean i was a minor and went through a rebellious stage just like everyone else did
 
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