Plastic airplane, Glass Panel

wesleyj

wesleyj

Pre-takeoff checklist
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wesleyj
Yesterday I finally decided to try the new Diamond 4 place with the glass panel. Well,,,, the airplane is fairly nice, not enough head room for me but I have run into that before.

However I have one very serious concern, we are already raising generation after generation of pilots that dont really know how to fly, they are airplane drivers that never look outside, after flying the glass panel for a while I beleive that the training of students at the basic level with glass panels, should be forbidden, they serve no purpose during initial training except to encourage the student to watch inside exclusively, todays students dont know enough about basic pilotage skills now, glass will only make it worse.
 
wesleyj said:
However I have one very serious concern, we are already raising generation after generation of pilots that dont really know how to fly, they are airplane drivers that never look outside, after flying the glass panel for a while I beleive that the training of students at the basic level with glass panels, should be forbidden, they serve no purpose during initial training except to encourage the student to watch inside exclusively, todays students dont know enough about basic pilotage skills now, glass will only make it worse.
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The only solution I see is to engineer the new electronic flight systems and glass panels to be so damn reliable that them failing is unheard of. Problem solved.
 
Just add another glass panel that is hooked to a cam that scans the area around the plane. The toy will be so much fun to play with the the "airplane driver" will not realise they are scanning outside the plane.
 
The fascination you experienced is typical of any new equipment. It's experienced by folks in steam gauge planes who add 430's, or people with 430's who add an MFD, etc., etc. I went through it when I put a GPS and MFD in my Cougar. It passes. Further, for those who know no other system, it's less an issue than those faced with a shiny new system unlike what they've been using. You can teach them to look outside without them being as fascinated by the glass. If you hear from those doing ab initio training in glass panel airplanes, like ERAU, UND, and MTSU, you'll learn that it's not so big a problem that it requires regulatory intervention. If anything, it's the existing pilots like you and I who have the biggest problem with their eyes being attracted to the glass like a moth to a flame.
 
Ron Levy said:
The fascination you experienced is typical of any new equipment. It's experienced by folks in steam gauge planes who add 430's, or people with 430's who add an MFD, etc., etc. I went through it when I put a GPS and MFD in my Cougar. It passes. Further, for those who know no other system, it's less an issue than those faced with a shiny new system unlike what they've been using. You can teach them to look outside without them being as fascinated by the glass. If you hear from those doing ab initio training in glass panel airplanes, like ERAU, UND, and MTSU, you'll learn that it's not so big a problem that it requires regulatory intervention. If anything, it's the existing pilots like you and I who have the biggest problem with their eyes being attracted to the glass like a moth to a flame.
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...maybe. I keep thinking that the reason that guy splahed his Cirrus at Kremmling last month was that he was really really fascinated, and trusting in the glass. No sense of situational awareness.....
 
'zactly... the current trend in technological will render windows unnecessary in aircraft...pilots, too (already in practice now). VFR will be like tractor pulls and steam engines...a historical oddity preserved by a dedicated few.

JRitt said:
Just add another glass panel that is hooked to a cam that scans the area around the plane. The toy will be so much fun to play with the the "airplane driver" will not realise they are scanning outside the plane.
Click to expand...
 
I guess that maybe I wasnt really clear in what I was saying, as a matter of fact I find that the Erau, Und and MTSU pilots, trained with glass panels have no concept of situational awareness except what the glean from the glass, they have to be the poorest prepared pilots for the real world that there are, in fact I put them in the category of airplane drivers, not pilots.

Actually I found no fasination with the glass other than to wonder what all of the fuss was about, it merely presents some of the info in a differant format than in the past,, however some of its tendancy toward flight director are I feel detrimental to good training methods for new pilots, but then it doesnt really go far enough as a FD to be a real aid in hard IFR.
 
I remember being fascinated by the first GPS I ever saw in an airplane, then fascinated by an autopilot, then fascinated by my new blonde CFII, and so on... but never as fascinated as I am by the view out the window.

I don't find the G1000 to "suck me into the cockpit". In fact, since it's so easy to find the info I need, I think I'm more "heads-up" when flying the G1000. I think this trait is a function of experience.
 
Steve said:
'zactly... the current trend in technological will render windows unnecessary in aircraft...pilots, too (already in practice now).
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Just like the Enterprise on Star Trek.
 
wesleyj said:
as a matter of fact I find that the Erau, Und and MTSU pilots, trained with glass panels have no concept of situational awareness except what the glean from the glass, they have to be the poorest prepared pilots for the real world that there are, in fact I put them in the category of airplane drivers, not pilots.
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Since none of the pilots who started on glass at those schools have graduated yet (introduced at MTSU in 2005, and the others only a year or two before), I'm wondering what contact you've had with them.

Actually I found no fasination with the glass other than to wonder what all of the fuss was about, it merely presents some of the info in a differant format than in the past,
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Perhaps you don't understand what I meant by "fascination" in the human factors sense. This term is used to describe the effect in which the subject's perceptual attention is drawn to and focused intently on a particular item to the exclusion of all else, sort of the "moth to a flame" effect, or the attraction of the spinning watch in hypnosis. In that sense, your description of pilots staring at the glass panel without looking outside or even at any other cockpit instruments is an example of "fascination."
 
did a 182 checkout with one this summer, flew the 182 onto the nose wheel every time, complained constantly about not being able to judge his attitude with the outdated steam gages, says everything should have glass.

they may not have graduated yet, but they still go home for breaks or to visit friends.
 
wesleyj said:
...complained constantly about not being able to judge his attitude with the outdated steam gages...
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I am trying to recall when I *ever* tried to judge my landing flare by the AI... nope, never.

He really said that? :dunno:
 
wesleyj said:
Sure did
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Damn, that is bad. I steal one last look at the ASI over the fence, then it's all eyes outside from there.
 
wesleyj said:
did a 182 checkout with one this summer, flew the 182 onto the nose wheel every time, complained constantly about not being able to judge his attitude with the outdated steam gages, says everything should have glass.

they may not have graduated yet, but they still go home for breaks or to visit friends.
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So on the basis of one flight with one person from one of the schools in an unfamiliar plane (none of those schools use 182's), you condemn all trainees from all of them? I hardly think that's fair, and is certainly not a scientific study or statistically significant. One could as easily condemn your instructional skills for allowing that person to "fl[y] the 182 onto the nose wheel every time," but I hardly think that would be fair, either.
 
no it is not on the basis of one flight, it is on the basis of many, not only recently but over the past few years, the crap for pilots that these so called schools are puttiing out is an abomination to the industry, they are producing airplane drivers on a fast track to the right seat of a kerosene queen with absolutely no clue as to what it takes to function as a real pilot. i cited the example of the 182 because it was one of the most recent in a long line of experiance with cert mill drivers.

i will give them one thing however, they are well versed on regs and theory, but that doesnt make up for skill or common sense.
 
bbchien said:
...maybe. I keep thinking that the reason that guy splahed his Cirrus at Kremmling last month was that he was really really fascinated, and trusting in the glass. No sense of situational awareness.....
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I would say no sense or situational awareness, minor difference.

I've been reluctant to enter this discussion. In august I got my first Cirrus student a private pilot license in an SR22, he had 3 or 4 hrs in a 172 when he got delivery. I was his 3rd instructor and he's a busy guy who didn't fly that often, combine that with the complex avionics and high performance nature of the plane and he had about 140 hrs when he took the practical test.

I feel he's a better Cirrus pilot than most people who got their private in a steam gauge 172 and transistioned to an SR22.

It certainly wasn't the quickest way to a PP but that wasn't his goal. His goal was/is to become a competant and safe Cirrus pilot. We're working on his instrument rating now.

I think blaming the airplane or the avionics for bad pilot skills and poor decision making is a lot like blaming the hammer for bent nails.

Joe
 
But how am I supposed to find my destination airport without the line on the GPS?
:dunno:
 
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