Planing first flight Through a TFR

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Owad1971

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Owad1971
So, after planinga Jersey Shore Beach Day...I suddenly realize there is a big fat VIP TFR over NYC/LI for the entire weekend:mad2::mad2::mad2:

I do NOT want to cancel my trip and did some quick research on how to get passed through VFR. Can anyone with NYC TFR transition experience share some practical advice? Would it be best to get on my FRG-26N trip at O'Dark 30 in the am?

I know I must be on a flight plan, but I really am hoping to get cleared through JFK's Bravo and cross the harbor inlet at a decent altitude as a margin of safety....Under the Bravo just doesn't seem smart 13 mi under 500ft for the first 5mi and 1500 ft for the next 10:nonod:

What say y'all?
 
Owad1971 said:
So, after planinga Jersey Shore Beach Day...I suddenly realize there is a big fat VIP TFR over NYC/LI for the entire weekend:mad2::mad2::mad2:

I do NOT want to cancel my trip and did some quick research on how to get passed through VFR. Can anyone with NYC TFR transition experience share some practical advice? Would it be best to get on my FRG-26N trip at O'Dark 30 in the am?

I know I must be on a flight plan, but I really am hoping to get cleared through JFK's Bravo and cross the harbor inlet at a decent altitude as a margin of safety....Under the Bravo just doesn't seem smart 13 mi under 500ft for the first 5mi and 1500 ft for the next 10:nonod:

What say y'all?
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Log-on to DUATS, contact the FSS or find the NOTAM for the TFR and go from there. If you violate a TFR you could get an escort or worse.

Here is the full scoop on all eight TFR types and whats required generally:

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/notams_tfr/media/tfrweb.pdf
 
Since you'll be in the outer area of the Presidential TFR, you should have no trouble doing this flight as you normally would, as long as "normally" includes filing a flight plan and getting flight following. Even the Shoreline Transition should be available as well as the direct JFK V16 route at a higher altitude (although you may have to circle up to 6500 well east of JFK). For the outbound route, file the flight plan and get your squawk code and freq for NY TRACON via FRG Clearance/Ground. You should be handed off from Tower to the TRACON, and after that, just do what they say. For the return, file a flight plan from a point inside NY TRACON airspace (like COL VOR) back to FRG, and either get flight following starting with Atlantic City Approach on departure from 26N or at least by calling NY TRACON as you reach COL VOR.

Note that for VFR operations, the best way to file this is do it similar to a DC SFRA flight plan. File an IFR flight plan using a VFR altitude and put "VFR TFR" in the remarks block. This will ensure that a strip is generated in the NY TRACON so they will have the data available. Only concern is if you aren't instrument qualified, make sure they understand you're VFR.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Note that for VFR operations, the best way to file this is do it similar to a DC SFRA flight plan. File an IFR flight plan using a VFR altitude and put "VFR TFR" in the remarks block. This will ensure that a strip is generated in the NY TRACON so they will have the data available. Only concern is if you aren't instrument qualified, make sure they understand you're VFR.
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I didn't know this was how they did it for the DC SFRA, but it brings up an interesting question regarding the other discussion about FlightAware tracks... is this practice frowned upon outside of the SFRA and TFRs? Makes no difference to me, but (if it's "allowed") it might be a way for those always trying to get FlightAware tracks to guarantee coverage of VFR flights.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since you'll be in the outer area of the Presidential TFR, you should have no trouble doing this flight as you normally would, as long as "normally" includes filing a flight plan and getting flight following. Even the Shoreline Transition should be available as well as the direct JFK V16 route at a higher altitude (although you may have to circle up to 6500 well east of JFK). For the outbound route, file the flight plan and get your squawk code and freq for NY TRACON via FRG Clearance/Ground. You should be handed off from Tower to the TRACON, and after that, just do what they say. For the return, file a flight plan from a point inside NY TRACON airspace (like COL VOR) back to FRG, and either get flight following starting with Atlantic City Approach on departure from 26N or at least by calling NY TRACON as you reach COL VOR.

Note that for VFR operations, the best way to file this is do it similar to a DC SFRA flight plan. File an IFR flight plan using a VFR altitude and put "VFR TFR" in the remarks block. This will ensure that a strip is generated in the NY TRACON so they will have the data available. Only concern is if you aren't instrument qualified, make sure they understand you're VFR.
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Thank you Sir! It is looking less daunting by the minute. I was concerned since I have been booted from FF and/or told to stay out of Bravo when NY was busy about 50% of the time. I will be sure to let them know I am VFR only.
 
mjburian said:
I didn't know this was how they did it for the DC SFRA,
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It's not exactly how it's done in the DC SFRA (there is a specific box to check for DC SFRA but that won't help you anywhere else), but it will generate a strip.

but it brings up an interesting question regarding the other discussion about FlightAware tracks... is this practice frowned upon outside of the SFRA and TFRs? Makes no difference to me, but (if it's "allowed") it might be a way for those always trying to get FlightAware tracks to guarantee coverage of VFR flights.
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I don't recommend doing this other than to get through a Security TFR.
 
Owad1971 said:
Thank you Sir! It is looking less daunting by the minute. I was concerned since I have been booted from FF and/or told to stay out of Bravo when NY was busy about 50% of the time. I will be sure to let them know I am VFR only.
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You may well be told to stay clear of Bravo if they're busy, but once you're in the air outbound from FRG, they cannot "boot you" until you get clear of the TFR. OTOH, you could experience delays reentering the TFR, so on return, be prepared for them to tell you to orbit around COL until they can accept you. Not saying that will happen, just saying be prepared for the possibility. Likewise, a ground delay at FRG is also a possibility on departure.
 
mjburian said:
I didn't know this was how they did it for the DC SFRA, but it brings up an interesting question regarding the other discussion about FlightAware tracks... is this practice frowned upon outside of the SFRA and TFRs? Makes no difference to me, but (if it's "allowed") it might be a way for those always trying to get FlightAware tracks to guarantee coverage of VFR flights.
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There's people who will argue both ways on whether this is an appropriate practice. Some TRACON/ARTCC controllers have, I believe, suggested this as their preferred method to get you into the system for Flight Following. If you file IFR with VFR/055 (for example) as your altitude block, it's easier for them to just pull up your strip rather than entering you in, and you are more likely to show up in FA.

However, others suggest that it's not the proper use of an IFR flight plan, and could also clog up the system. Whatever you do, make sure you never accept an IFR clearance from a confused controller (unless, of course, you're rated, equipped, current, and want to do so).
 
The amount of TFRS in the northeast part of the country right now is absurd. I'm fed up with every time the president comes into New York City general aviation gets treated like we are just vehicles for terrorists to crash. This TFR is the biggest I've ever seen. Plus one in Martha's vineyard and little pop up ones all around. I'm planning on flying tomorrow morning and my options are so restricted because of these.

TFR's are completely unnesacary also- they do nothing but infringe on peoples rights to fly where they want!
 
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This one is only a few miles west of KISP- normally they extend only around KFRG. This one goes much further east( at least according to foreflight)
 
jspilot said:
The amount of TFRS in the northeast part of the country right now is absurd. I'm fed up with every time the president comes into New York City general aviation gets treated like we are just vehicles for terrorists to crash. This TFR is the biggest I've ever seen. Plus one in Martha's vineyard and little pop up ones all around. I'm planning on flying tomorrow morning and my options are so restricted because of these.

TFR's are completely unnesacary also- they do nothing but infringe on peoples rights to fly where they want!
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That may all be true, but it ain't going away any time soon, so learn how to work with it, and sympathize with us in the DC area who live with it 24/7/52 (even when the Prez is out of town).
 
This time it's centered on Westchester County. And there are 3 inner rings. And there's 2 30nm more northeast around Providence. It is a little out of the usual.

Check again on the Westchester one, they changed the times and it will end Friday night, and resume on Saturday around 1715 local, so you might be able to fly on Saturday.
 
Ron Levy said:
That article is 11 years old and out of date in many respects, especially with regard to the DC SFRA.
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It has a table with good info in it. If you are reading it for the TFRs it mentions, they you are missing the point.

BTW. Arent have the guys on this board buying or flying 30 plus year old Cessnas? And defending that by saying the old crap is the best crap?
 
CTLSi said:
BTW. Arent have the guys on this board buying or flying 30 plus year old Cessnas? And defending that by saying the old crap is the best crap?
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You REALLY don't see the difference between instructions that no longer apply and perfectly serviceable devices that happen to be old?

You can't possibly be that dense.
 
Johann said:
This time it's centered on Westchester County. And there are 3 inner rings. And there's 2 30nm more northeast around Providence. It is a little out of the usual.

Check again on the Westchester one, they changed the times and it will end Friday night, and resume on Saturday around 1715 local, so you might be able to fly on Saturday.
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Providence (and Newport) is a fund raising event that the prez is visiting. Arrival around rushhour and back to home around 9pm.
Kills off a lot of revenue flights for schools in the area.
 
Ron Levy said:
That may all be true, but it ain't going away any time soon, so learn how to work with it, and sympathize with us in the DC area who live with it 24/7/52 (even when the Prez is out of town).
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Yeah the DC area must be absurd. I just don't like being restricted by completely unnesacary restrictions that mean nothing and only restrict airplanes that could not do damage even if they wanted to.

What sense does having a TFR in place when major airlines are not impacted at all? Just nonsensical.

I'll spare you all the rest of the rant.
 
jspilot said:
The amount of TFRS in the northeast part of the country right now is absurd. I'm fed up with every time the president comes into New York City general aviation gets treated like we are just vehicles for terrorists to crash. This TFR is the biggest I've ever seen. Plus one in Martha's vineyard and little pop up ones all around. I'm planning on flying tomorrow morning and my options are so restricted because of these.

TFR's are completely unnesacary also- they do nothing but infringe on peoples rights to fly where they want!
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Well, they DO identify areas ripe for a terror attack! I wonder how many nefarious groups follow the TFR site contemplating which area they might target? :dunno:
 
And here come the black suv's to take LDJones away....
 
Get the darned instrument rating and file IFR. That will allow ATC to vector you through all but the no-fly inner-ring.
You are under positive control and they are happy.
Makes life easy - especially when it is VFR conditions so you are relaxed and only have to hold altitude and heading while you sight see.
 
Johann said:
This time it's centered on Westchester County. And there are 3 inner rings. And there's 2 30nm more northeast around Providence. It is a little out of the usual.

Check again on the Westchester one, they changed the times and it will end Friday night, and resume on Saturday around 1715 local, so you might be able to fly on Saturday.
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Owad, re-read the tfr text. I'll be flying tomorrow morning with friends of a friend visiting from Brazil. The usual Hudson exclusion via TZ returning CP/LGA north shore LI back to Gabreski.

Have a great flight. :thumbsup:
 
jspilot said:
Yeah the DC area must be absurd. I just don't like being restricted by completely unnesacary restrictions that mean nothing and only restrict airplanes that could not do damage even if they wanted to.
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I won't get into a political debate, but we've learned to work through the SFRA rules without any significant losses of operational flexibility other than getting into Washington National Airport.
 
Ron Levy said:
I won't get into a political debate, but we've learned to work through the SFRA rules without any significant losses of operational flexibility other than getting into Washington National Airport.
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And that's they key. The DC SFRA is permanent, so locals learned how to work with it.
Flight schools don't cancel flights because of the SFRA, otherwise they would be always cancelled.
In other areas, it causes all kinds of disruptions.

It's the difference between snow in Michigan and snow in Atlanta.
 
Johann said:
And that's they key. The DC SFRA is permanent, so locals learned how to work with it.
Flight schools don't cancel flights because of the SFRA, otherwise they would be always cancelled.
In other areas, it causes all kinds of disruptions.

It's the difference between snow in Michigan and snow in Atlanta.
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Point taken.
 
These are becoming ridiculous, they put up one over the local college football game...really?
 
Morgan3820 said:
I have now, Thanks.

My opinion still holds.

next it will be little league baseball. Who thinks this stuff up?
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As a nation we have failed to understand the ideology that motivated the perpetrators of 9/11. In the name of political correctness we have focused the resources of our nation on how the modern adherents of that 14 centuries old ideology act instead of who they are and why. So we have pulled up the drawbridge of personal liberty in the name of defense because we have not mustered the courage to acknowledge the truth that our ancestors understood well, a truth that was so eloquently described by President John Quincy Adams, and for whom I was shouted down by a large audience of my academic peers for quoting when I stood up in a university sponsored conference of military historians.

I lived in Arabia before 9/11 for five years. I learned their language, customs, history, and studied their religions. I and many of my colleagues there knew in the late 1980s that our civilization and their medieval tribal culture we were on a collision course. I have not changed my mind and neither did J. Q. Adams. President Jefferson understood it well (he owned a copy of their book, remember), so well that he defied public opinion and during a recess of Congress ordered the construction of the six frigates that were to become the standing US Navy, one of which is still in commission, the USS Constitution ( Old Ironsides). For fourteen years thereafter "Bainbridges Boys" engaged the enemy who had unilaterally declared jihad on the newly formed nation of the United States, until Captain Stephen Decatur famously despatched to the Secretary of the Navy in 1915 that the terms of the treaty that ended the depredations of jihad upon the United States were, "dictated at the mounts of our cannon."

Because we have forgotten our own history, we are doomed to surrender our liberty for the false security that is manifested in TSA theater and TFR shackles.
 
The tfrs just make things a little more difficult. You have to file and fly the route,no deviations for sight seeing. Not much more difficult then going through NY Bravo.
 
UPDATE: Easy as Pie! On the way down in the am before the TFR: Filed, Activated, Checked in, Got Code, (as expected: "stay under the JFK Bravo" since they were launching from 22L),- cleared higher to cross the inlet...then smooth sailing straight to 26N. MacGuire handlers were amazing! They really tripped overthemselves to provide service to anyone and everyone! Even my passenger noticed the professionalism and eagerness to work with everyone who checked in.

For the trip back followed the same process. Uneventful except for the overcast and broken layer along the coast advertised as 4000' but actually appeared at 2100' (made my first PIREP on this).

JFK was landing 4L & 4R- I had no desire to scoot under the Bravo along the south shore at 500ft or below, across their final..so I "offered" to take the skyline route north then across to FRG- they agreed, and let me come up the Hudson, across Manhattan, over LGA, the Bronx bridges, North Queens then back to FRG. The unexpected sight seeing tour was well appreciated by the GF!!!!

Overall this was a great experience. Thanks everyone for contributing thoughts and ideas and helping me get it done!!!
 
Morgan3820 said:
I have now, Thanks.

My opinion still holds.

next it will be little league baseball. Who thinks this stuff up?
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Stadium management that was not getting a cut of the advertising revenue from banner towing. Why do you thing the NHL is not included?
 
FWIW, I attempted to get FF to fly over a TFR last week (a ballgame). I thought the controller was about to laugh at me and he certainly didn't clear me through it.
 
labbadabba said:
FWIW, I attempted to get FF to fly over a TFR last week (a ballgame). I thought the controller was about to laugh at me and he certainly didn't clear me through it.
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If you're going over a standard sports event TFR (i.e., above the standard 3000 AGL roof), you don't need a clearance or even to be communicating with ATC. But if you are getting flight following, there's no reason to ask the controller if you can transit through it -- the fact that you are in communication with them and squawking an assigned 4-digit code is sufficient. Sort of like if you're talking to Tower, you don't have to ask for a clearance to enter the D-space.
 
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