# Plane Suggestions?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by GigEm98, Aug 9, 2012.

1. ### GigEm98Filing Flight Plan

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Hi, I have been reading on POA for a few months now, but this is my first post.

I am not a pilot, I have not even started taking lessons yet. I hope to start in about a year, and right now I am just trying to ready anything aviation related that I can. One of the things that I like to do is think about what plane I may own one day.

I have a wife and 3 kids (ages 6, 6, and 3) (yes, the 6 year olds are twins).

Since there are 5 of us, that would seem to me to push us into the 6 seat plane category, which also ups the prices, operating costs, etc. Are there any 5 seat planes availalbe that would be more economical than the 6 seat planes?

(I realise that the kids are just going to keep growing and getting bigger, so eventually I will have to get a 6 seat plane. But I am also open to the idea of getting something that will work for us for the next 5 or so years, and then upgrading at that time. Lucky for me, the kids are all on the smaller side.)

Current Weights:
Me/wife combined = 330,6 yo = 50,6 yo = 50,3 yo = 35
Current total weight of passengers is 465 lbs.
Assume total weight of passengers in 5 years to be 630 lbs.

Of course we would also need to be able to take some luggage with us, but we can pack pretty light.

Our main mission would be trips within 600nm (willing to stop for fuel), ranging in lengths from 3 days to 10 days.

Like to haves:
IFR Certified (would like to use it to get my Instrument Rating after getting my PPL)
Air Conditioning
Prefer Low wing, but would consider high wing as well

So are there any 5 seat planes that would work? (Do they even make 5 seat planes?)

Thanks,
Mike

2. ### CJonesEn-Route

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If you're not in a hurry to get there, a Cherokee-Six would get your family and enough stuff for a 10-day stay without any problems at all. As an added bonus, it's not a retract, which means it would be easier to insure for a new PP. It's a gas hog for the speed, but you can haul almost anything you can get in it.

BTW - Welcome to PoA!

3. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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Cherokee 6, or Cessna 205 or 206.

The 205 might be the least expensive to run.

4. ### James_DeanPattern AltitudePoA Supporter

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I was in the same boat and bought a fixed gear Saratoga with 75 hours total time. Got my IR in it and haven't looked back after about 600 hours. My LLC bills me \$175/hr and with that I cover all costs and am building an appropriate reserve @ 120 hrs/yr. 140kts and about 850 lbs payload with about 5.5 hours endurance so loading options are generous.

I keep dreaming about retract, more speed, k-ice, twin, more seats, etc but justification and math require some fanciful valuation of my time. Having said that - when Dr. Chien decides to sell his Seneca I will probably go to Peoria with a check.

5. ### Tom-DTaxi to ParkingPoA Supporter

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One of these http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1570849.html will do the job really well.

6. ### NineThreeKiloEjection Handle Pulled

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So you havent begun flight training yet and want to buy a plane, sounds like a really bad idea, heck what if you suck at flying!

7. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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8. ### dell30rbFinal ApproachPoA Supporter

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9. ### Traveler0471Filing Flight Plan

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Sounds like a future Cherokee 6 owner, the PA32, now called the Saratoga, got to love Piper and their naming conventions.

You may want to take a few introductory rides. See if you like it. Get your medical out of the way. Then find an FBO Piper dealer that will sell you a PA28 Cherokee to learn to fly in. Then trade up. Might be able to work a lease back deal with him.

10. ### GigEm98Filing Flight Plan

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Sorry if I was not clear. I am not looking to buy right now, just more day dreaming that anything. I am always interested in the threads that try to fit a plane to a mission.

11. ### JkzeppaFiling Flight Plan

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I'm not sure if there are any aircraft manufactured with only 5 seats, but I doubt it. Most, if not all, offer an even number of seats, with the unique exception of the single seat aircraft which certainly won't accommodate your needs.
The single biggest question you need to ask yourself is how much can I afford (or tolerate) to spend? in answering this question you need to take into consideration not just the acquisition cost but also the operating cost, which includes a lot more than just gas. Maintaining an airplane is usually a much more costly experience than the first time owner realizes.
Once you have decided how much you are willing to spend you will have a better idea of the types of airplanes which will be available to you. I assume, since you are just getting started in your aviation endeavor, that you will mainly be looking at single engine airplanes. If this is the case then you still have quite a wide range of options from about \$50K to a cool \$1M or higher.
While the number of seats is of concern, useful load, or the amount of "stuff" you can put in the plane beyond gas, is a more important number to keep in mind. There are a number of good options below \$125K that should suit your needs. The "big three" general aviation manufacturers (Beech, Cessna and Piper) each have at least one option for you. Some have several.
In order to have the ability to tote around 5 folks and bags you will definitely need to stay in the 6 seat category. On most of those airplanes you have the capability of removing the "sixth" seat for more baggage space, which you will certainly need to do.
I highly recommend joining AOPA and using the wonderful, helpful resources that they have to offer the airplane buyer, from research on the best plane for you to legal help during the acquisition.

12. ### dell30rbFinal ApproachPoA Supporter

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cirrus sr22 (5 seats)

13. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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Velocity XL if EAB is an option

14. ### NineThreeKiloEjection Handle Pulled

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We arnt trying to compare a helio to a 182 are we? That's like comparing Angelina Jolie (the helio) to Rosanne.

Seems like a hell of a deal on that helio too, and it's not a geared engine too!

Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
15. ### AggieMike88Touchdown! Greaser!

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
To the OP: HOWDY AG!

16. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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If Angelina Jolie is overweight, thirsty and slow... Besides I'd rather have a plane/woman I can afford to operate:wink2:

Don't want a training wheel, go 180/5

17. ### NineThreeKiloEjection Handle Pulled

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...sigh.

You honestly beleive a 182 is more plane the a helio..you poor lost soul

18. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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More, no

But it is slightly faster burns significantly less fuel and has only a slightly lower useful load than Toms example.

19. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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BTW After running the numbers once the trip goes past 1.3 on the Hobbs I can actually haul MORE weight the same distance or the same weight further

That Helio is cool, but buying a plane is like a marriage, I'll take the girl that gets me there

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The operating cost difference between a 205 and a 206 won't be significant. The back door and club seating on the Six will be. Also, Piper made planes in that class with a/c while Cessna did not. All things considered, I'd suggest finding a flight school with PA28's and plan on getting a PA32 when you get your license.

Also, while there may be three seat belts in the back seat of an SR22, it will not be a satisfactory solution. Just go out to the airport with the whole family and wait for one to stop in, then load them all in the plane with all the gear with which a family of five travels, and sit in the plane for two hours with the kids (you don't even have to start the engine). Your question will be answered.

Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
21. ### Ken IboldFinal Approach

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Also some Trinidads have 5 seats, for a more reasonable entry fee than a new SR22

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For a family of five, I would suggest the same test for the Trinidad as for Cirrus. I think after that, you'll end up with the Six.

23. ### HenningEjection Handle Pulled

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I don't know, there are only so many planes that meet his mission and you can't rent most of them. Buy your last plane first and train in it from day one works pretty well both economically and from a safety standpoint.

24. ### Ken IboldFinal Approach

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NO question about it. Having owned two PA-32s, I'm sold on their value. Great utility and moderate cost; you just have to put up with the dowdiness.

25. ### Geico266Touchdown! Greaser!

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Don't do dowdy! Buy an RV!

26. ### bbchienTouchdown! Greaser!

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Try KAustin on the redboard, Mike.

27. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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Not many six seaters

28. ### Tom-DTaxi to ParkingPoA Supporter

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4,000# gross
1,300# useful
120 gallons
127 kts @ 19 gph

29. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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Those are the numbers I used, compare to:
3100# gross
1,250# useful
88 gallons (96 total, don't know if the 120 is total or useful)
130 kits @ 12.5 gph

30. ### Geico266Touchdown! Greaser!

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The RV goes so fast and economical that you can make the trip twice for the same money in the same time.

31. ### Tom-DTaxi to ParkingPoA Supporter

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you forgot the 6 seats.

32. ### HenningEjection Handle Pulled

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I used to fly a PA 32-300 125@15gph LOP.

33. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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No, but how useful are the extra seats with an 8 cylinder engine to feed out of a (relatively) light useful load of 1300#?
I have a greater load available per seat and need less fuel and still couldn't haul a family of 5 weight wise...

34. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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Don't think that 720 will manage that lean

35. ### HenningEjection Handle Pulled

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I'm missing something here, when did a PA-32 300 come with an IO720?

36. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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It didn't, this numbers are from a Helio courier

37. ### Tom-DTaxi to ParkingPoA Supporter

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When did we start talking about the economy of the plan?

38. ### Skylane81EFinal Approach

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True, it ain't my money

39. ### HenningEjection Handle Pulled

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Ahhh, that's what I missed. Actually, if you stuck a 720 in a PA 32 and flew it slow, I doublt the economy to be much worse. The Brave with the 720 would ferry light at 115 for about the same fuel as the 260 Pawnee at the same speed, but it was just loafing along. I liked the 720 a lot myself.

40. ### Tom-DTaxi to ParkingPoA Supporter

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the op was asking what aircraft would do the job of carrying his family, that H-800 will do it with ease, and go places that most aircraft never see.

And I know two pilots that learned in them from day 1 to CPL

Just don't do down wind take off in one. you simply don't have enough rudder to over come a left quartering tail wind and the "P" factor.they will go around on you before you get the wheels off the ground.