Plane down in Western Washington

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by Will Kumley, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. Will Kumley

    Will Kumley Pre-takeoff checklist

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  2. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    Oh my. Heavy tides in the Juan de Fuca Strait and cold water. I've sailed all through those waters.
    Praying for positive news.
     
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  3. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    Sounds like a Cessna 170 from AK, one onboard.
     
  4. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    I hate guessing about things like this.
    the FAA has not give numbers yet, no one is reporting anyone missing.
    So,, we wait.
    Puget Sound is a bad place to down, water temp is 43 degrees today, that gives us about 15 minutes survival time.
     
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  5. Will Kumley

    Will Kumley Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah, definitely beautiful to fly over to the San Juan islands but not somewhere I'd want to put it down. My wife used to ask why I climbed as high as I do prior to crossing the water. I told her the water is cold and she hasn't asked since. No details yet even on what the mayday call was. As in, was he high enough to glide to land? Was it as simple as an engine out or was it something more immediate? Either way, it doesn't seem good to have a plane missing fro this period of time. Heck, even if he made it to land and is in a wooded area it was cold last night with snowfall in most of the area up there.
     
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  6. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Doesn’t look good from the reports.
     
  7. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    What reports?
     
  8. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    With the tides I remember there, you definitely aren't gonna be anywhere near you ditching point in short time. Those waters are drysuit or raft to survive. But hopefully coming down from AK where its even colder they were prepared and made it out in good enough gear.
     
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  9. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Who said the pilot was south bound ?
     
  10. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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  11. skyking3286

    skyking3286 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The local pilot board has this: One soul on board. A couple of pilots heard the Mayday call on guard. Another report says the pilot was telling what ships he saw in the Straits and details about the coastal mountains. An ELT was heard for a short while and then stopped. CGS station at Port Angeles had a TFR over it, over the water north of the airport. Pilot left Ketchikan for Port Angeles. That would be about a 600sm trip in a 514-590sm range Cessna 170, if it was stock. Chinook winds were blowing hard due to a low pressure area to the west. Mayday call was only about a half hour before sunset. Hopefully he stopped for gas, but there are very few places to stop, with Canada being shut off due to COVID. More will come later. Rest in Peace.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
  12. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Not much in BC Canada seems to be closed, or shut off. Some back east, but our economy is booming, most people are working, and almost everything is open. Lots of places had their busiest year yet in 2020, I'm one of them. Been hiring like crazy the past 8 months to keep up. Very poorly written story.
     
  13. kath

    kath Administrator Management Council Member

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    Not for Americans...
    I imagine @skyking3286 was talking about the border (closed to nonessential travel) not the country itself.
     
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  14. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    The B.C. borders with the USA are closed, just like the border with the USA across the rest of Canada. Essential service personnel can cross; these are defined in a bilateral agreement between the USA and Canada. This includes truckers and air crew, as an example. Does not include GA airplanes in private recreational use.

    I qualify as essential under the agreement because of the business I am in. I've crossed the border, back and forth, a few times for business reasons since the closure and quarantine rules came in. Always in my own airplane, and always without any passengers.

    However, the rules are changing all the time depending on infection rates. Some changes just last week in the testing and quarantine requirements for anyone arriving into Canada. You should listen to your local news. Your Premier Horgan has been prominent in his recent public statements trying to get the B.C. borders with the rest of Canada closed. And your Provincial economy isn't booming in every sector or every region either. If it was you wouldn't have growing numbers of people living in tents in the public parks in your cities on the south coast.

    Lots of people and families are hurting right now. Everywhere. Be thankful you aren't one of them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  15. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    BC is a generally friendly place. If a pilot heading south realized their fuel calculations were off, and they need to land for emergency fuel, I'm sure that they are not in a huge pile of trouble. And places that actually have fuel, are open to get fuel at, they are not closed. Nobody is going to refuse a pilot in distress, it isn't how we are here. Land, call customs and say look, I messed up my calculations, and instead of crashing into the Pacific, I landed here for fuel, can you send a customs agent to this airport please. Sometimes humans miscalculate something, but it is most important how we handle that miscalculation. Don't fly until the engine sputters, instead land and ask for forgiveness. Nobody here would have refused that guy fuel, we're not like that. Airports in BC didn't just shut down, and fuel suppliers didn't close the doors and go home. BC was and is open for business mostly, maybe 2% of places are closed, and actually our unemployment rate is very low right now, and barely any businesses are closed. He should have landed, be it the northern tip of the island in Port Hardy, or mid island at the bigger airport in Nanaimo where there is already customs to come meet him on the ramp. I am 100% sure that he wouldn't have been refused to land, or get fuel. Pick any airport on the island, and land, we have many on the island. Maybe some countries would have refused him, we wouldn't.
     
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  16. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    In the past 12 months I have left BC 18 times, 10 of those were out of the country, the other 8 were to another province or territory. Nobody has said a thing to me. Went last month to Idaho, no biggie. Unemployment here is around 4.5% and those are mostly people who don't want to work, or such a terrible employee that nobody wants to hire them. My business was up 154% in 2020, my best year ever. I am struggling to hire people, hired 39 new people in 2020, need to hire more this year, but it isn't easy to find good people.
     
  17. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Don't take my word for it, here. 20210129_112408.jpg 20210129_112352.jpg
     
  18. A1Topgun

    A1Topgun Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Thread drift alert!
     
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  19. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have hired a lady for the first time ever to help find me good employees. Never had to do so before May 2020, again this week she is working on finding me people. Currently running short handed by about 15 staff, and this is my slow season, come summer time I will need 40. Don't paint the entire country, or even province with a broad brush. BC is very regional, in part to the enormous size of our province. Local airport has many commercial planes coming and going 7 days a week to. Come for a visit, spend a week, look around the area, then tell me if we are slow or not. Every window at the bank had a teller working yesterday, and still when i got there I had 17 people in line in front of me. Drive thru at McDonald's was more than 30 cars long, so I parked, went inside, ordered, sat at a table and had my Big mac. Line up at the gas station, roads are busy, our biggest mall was busy, went into a specialty lighting store to pick out some new lights for a house I am flipping, never seen it so busy. Realtors are the busiest they have ever been, my sister in law is a realtor, has been for 24 years, she said she needs a break. Filming is a huge industry in BC, they are making movies and tv series at a feverish pace in BC. Don't believe all that fake news that says BC is hurting, maybe a few remote towns are, but plenty of it is booming. And sledders from Alberta and Washington state are pouring into BC to ride. I saw at least 50 Vehicles in town yesterday with Washington plates, and double that with Alberta plates. Talked with a woman from Seattle, here with her husband and grandkids on vacation.
     
  20. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yes. Sorry but it ruffles my feathers when someone who doesn't live here is spreading false rumors.
     
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  21. kath

    kath Administrator Management Council Member

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    No argument here! Better to sit in a government official's office and explain yourself while ALIVE.

    However, I can see how the hassle and fines of an unexpected landing in Canada might play into a pilot's getthereitis/decision-making. Knowing that you'd be landing without an eAPIS, and might sustain a hefty fine for showing up against the COVID rules.

    The experience of living in BC (or in any Canadian province/territory) -- and of traveling to and from -- is VERY different for traveling Americans these days than it is for you locals. I flew the 172 through Canada last July -- the only reason they let me in was because I was transiting the country to get home to AK -- and the rules of conduct for me as a foreigner were VERY strict. I was to stay masked all the time. Do not leave the airport, in fact "stay with your aircraft" as much as possible. I was told not to go into town for anything, not to see any friends, not to do any recreation. No national parks. No exploring. No going shopping at the grocery store, or eating at restaurants. Hefty fines were being levied against Americans who go galavanting off to Banff for vacation. The customs agent looked in the back of my plane to make sure I had enough food to last the entire trip, so that I would not need to go into any town for anything. He wanted to know every airport along my planned route, how many miles per day I was expecting to cover. When I experienced a MX delay in the middle of Alberta, the government called me to ask about my schedule; I'm guessing they saw I was falling behind, and wanted to make sure I wasn't sightseeing or having coffee with my buddy from Edmonton.

    I'm guessing that, as a Canadian, the customs agent gave you a very different treatment, and a very different speech at the border, than he did me as an American.

    That being said, everyone I met at Canadian airports was super-friendly. They knew the rules I was subjected to, and offered to go into town for me if I needed anything, etc.


    Edit: sorry about the thread drift... but I can see how the AK pilot might have thought that an unexpected landing in Canada would qualify as a "problem worth avoiding if possible". Not worth your life, I think we can all agree... but still a factor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  22. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    So if "nobody said a thing to you" you must have been using sign language to communicate with the CBSA.

    https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/01/14/canadians-provinces-travel/

    B.C. premier wants to know if he can legally keep other Canadians from visiting

    Posted Jan 14, 2021 1:39 pm PST
    Last Updated Jan 14, 2021 at 6:33 pm PST

    VICTORIA (NEWS 1130) – B.C.’s premier says he’s looking at what can be done to prevent Canadian visitors from other provinces from coming here. This comes as COVID-19 continues to spread, and after communities across B.C. saw visitors from across the province and country over the holidays...

    Horgan says although international travel has been mostly dealt with, there are still challenges “when it comes to mobility within Canada.”


    https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/tru...quarantine-for-returning-travellers-1.5278757

    Trudeau considers mandatory hotel quarantine for returning travellers
    Published Friday, January 22, 2021 6:01PM EST

    The federal government is mulling a mandatory quarantine in hotels for returning travellers as the country's top doctor warns that easing COVID-19 restrictions too quickly could cause case numbers to shoot up again...

    ...The federal government is looking at options that would make it harder for people to return from foreign trips.

    But Public Safety Minister Bill Blair said the tools already in place must also be fully utilized. That includes more police enforcement of two-week quarantine rules for arriving travellers.

    "Compliance with that order is critical for keeping Canadians safe," he said...
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  23. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sure customs talked to me, as did the people in the 7 meetings I went to. I meant nobody said a negative thing to me, or how dare you come here. I have a trip planned to the USA or mexico for the next 7 months in a row. Blowing it out of proportion is silliness. I'm serious grg, come visit, put you up in my basement suit, show you around, see it first hand. I'll take you out shopping and to restaurants to, no big deal. If you come in April I have a 12 town/city tour of the island to do, you can see for yourself that the media is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, and that people are relaxed, businesses open, and nothing much has changed. A few tourist attractions are closed, but not much. It is time to step back from the left wing news, and see it with your own eyes. Media could make a big deal out of someone losing their shoes. Flight training hasn't even slowed down, and that is two people sitting so close they rub shoulders, and then upon landing, the same instructor is gone again 15 minutes later with another stranger. Restaurants make you wear a mask from the door to your table, then off goes the mask, till your walking back to the door to leave. So in total you wear a mask 40 seconds in the restaurants. I bought 14 new lights yesterday, and lady showing me the lights stood 10 inches away from me, and i was there 90 minutes.
     
  24. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    SO. what does this thread have to do with the topic.
    Some one just Died, start another thread and show a little respect..
     
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  25. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The usual PoA thread drift. The perceptions (correct or not) of having to stop in Canada are hypothesized to have played a role.
     
  26. pmanton

    pmanton Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Back to the topic. I just learned that the missing pilot was a hangar neighbor of a friend of mine in Havasu AZ.
    So Sad
     
  27. Will Kumley

    Will Kumley Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That sucks. I haven't seen any updates other than the USCG was suspending the search so I imagine nothing was ever found.
     
  28. kath

    kath Administrator Management Council Member

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  29. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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  30. skyking3286

    skyking3286 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    https://www.ktoo.org/2021/02/19/nts...en-ketchikan-and-port-angeles-in-fatal-crash/

    The night of the crash some of the pilots in the San Juan Islands heard the mayday call. I did a quick check of fuel and distance and thought he had run out of gas that night. Now we have the facts, including severe weather along route.

    IF all the tanks were filled up and the fuselage tank was 10 gallons, he had 50 gallons of gas, at the most 55 gallons if the fuselage tank was 15 gallons, including unusable fuel. If the middle range of his fuel calculations were used, he would have burned 54.4 gallons to get to Port Angeles. Cutting it way too close. There are too many crashes of planes that run out of gas within 10 miles of the destination airport. In this case, Puget Sound would be 5 to 10 minutes of useful consciousness before the cold. Tragic and also a good point to know your GPS position. The weather was nasty that evening and he ditched with less than a half hour before sunset.

    USCG was searching the wrong side of the border. NTSB report is here: https://www.krbd.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Report_102572_2_18_2021-7-07-45-PM.pdf
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  31. AKBill

    AKBill En-Route

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    Port Harty BC is were I stopped Seattle to Juneau with a stop in Ketchikan for customs. Sad to hear of the loss of life, RIP...:(
     
  32. MountainDude

    MountainDude Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    A contributing factor was inability to land in Canada to refuel, due to COVID.
     
  33. AKBill

    AKBill En-Route

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    I would think the pilot could have stopped for fuel, if he had filed his flight plan that way. When I passed through there was a secure area, you could get fuel stay in the area without having to do customs. He most likely thought he could make the trip non stop.
     
  34. RangeRider

    RangeRider Pre-Flight

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    You can stop somewhere along the coastal route for fuel without customs? Makes too much sense.
     
  35. Will Kumley

    Will Kumley Pre-takeoff checklist

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  36. skyking3286

    skyking3286 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You can certainly get locked into a train of thought. We were asking if declaring a fuel emergency would be enough to land in BC even with the COVID restrictions on another board. But if you get locked into thinking you might make it. . .even while texting your mother that you are concerned about your fuel situation . . . your mental options narrow. I think that's the one aspect that is so tragic. He knew fuel was an issue an hour before the ditching.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  37. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    I suspect he could have declared a fuel emergency and landed without legal repercussions.

    However, he likely would have had to spend two weeks in quarantine in Canada. That may have been the overriding concern.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
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  38. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I was doing some Googling and was having trouble finding anything that would address fuel stops on a through flight during the Covid restrictions, so I gave up. If I were planning a flight like that, my next step would be to see if I could get relevant information by phone or email.
     
  39. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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  40. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pattern Altitude

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    Had to google Drysuit.

    Learned something.