Plane Down Coney Island Beach

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by MSmith, May 21, 2005.

  1. MSmith

    MSmith Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    908
    Location:
    Hamilton, NJ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark Smith
    Happened just over an hour ago. Not much news yet.

    4 dead in crash of "small plane" on Coney Island beach near sunbathers.

    WNBC Report
     
  2. MSmith

    MSmith Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    908
    Location:
    Hamilton, NJ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark Smith
    A Newsday article says that all 4 were onboard the "Cessna" and that it came down nose first.
     
  3. MSmith

    MSmith Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    908
    Location:
    Hamilton, NJ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark Smith
    Tail number N778LP

    NY Times article says that the plane made a left turn and then fell like a rock. One witness reported hearing the engine sputter just before the turn.
     
  4. MSmith

    MSmith Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    908
    Location:
    Hamilton, NJ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark Smith
    Seems like the plane is used by a flight school at Teteroboro (TEB ).
     
  5. AdamZ

    AdamZ Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    15,531
    Location:
    Montgomery County PA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Adam Zucker
  6. C-1 PILOT

    C-1 PILOT Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    NYC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    C-1 PILOT
    Plane was from Linden (KLDJ) where I am based. I'm still waiting for more info, but sadly the PIC might be a friend of mine. It was supposedly a Discovery Flight.
     
  7. C-1 PILOT

    C-1 PILOT Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    NYC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    C-1 PILOT
    Mark, I posted this on Avisg and The Pilots Lounge...


    Just got word the PIC/CFI was a friend of ours. I met this fine young man last June after flying my Diamond back from Canada. I was looking for a CFI to ride along while I got familiar with the aircraft and get night current. He had flown C-1's while in Florida and was very sharp. I found him to be a very safety conscious pilot & instructor. My condolances to his family and the family of his passengers. I will miss his bright smile and enthusiasum for flying.
     
  8. corjulo

    corjulo Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    644
    Location:
    Avon Connecticut
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Corjulo
    If it was a CFI at the control then I would have to assume engine failure. That's what several witnesses reported.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2005
  9. Nav8tor

    Nav8tor Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Nav8tor
    C-1, I'm very sorry to hear of your loss.
     
  10. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    16,657
    Location:
    Dallas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spike Cutler
    In a stunning example of ****-poor reporting, the New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/311911p-266840c.html), at the end of its story about the tragic accident at Coney Island, included this gem, pointing out the "troubled past" of Cessna aircraft:

    <li> TROUBLED PAST

    Recent mishaps involving Cessnas:





    <li>May 11: Two confused fliers in a two-seat Cessna 150 wandered into restricted air space over Washington, causing panicked evacuations of the White House, Capitol Hill and the Supreme Court.

    <li>April 23: A student pilot and his instructor were killed when a Cessna 172 crashed in a wooded area about 2 miles from Westchester County Airport. The pilot had apparently been practicing instrument landing approaches, according to the FAA.



    <li>April 23: A 46-year-old pilot was forced to land a rented 1979 Cessna 172 on Main St. in Duncanville, Tex., when the engine suddenly cut out at 1,500 feet. No one was hurt.

    <li>Jan. 5, 2002: A suicidal teenager, Charles Bishop, flew a Cessna 172R into a building in downtown Tampa, killing himself. No one else was injured. He left a note expressing sympathy for Osama Bin Laden.
     
  11. bstratt

    bstratt Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    St. Charles, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canuck
    Sigh! Why do these things always happen a few days before I'm trying to get my notoriously reluctant wife in the plane for a long XC? Now she wants me to assure her that this guy made a mistake that I would never make.

    She completely overlooked the motorcycle fatality, two car accident fatalities and the couple standing at the bus stop on the sidewalk who were taken out by a drunk driver - all of which in articles just below the plane story! :dunno:
     
  12. fgcason

    fgcason En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Location:
    Nomad
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Frank Cason
    What a shining example of absolutely brilliant objective professionalism at it's best!

    In THREE years all the reporter could come up with was 4 entries. Only 2 of which might but not necessarily may have something to do with the airplane itself and the other two are most certainly bonehead moves where the plane was just an innocent victim. I can list 5 indications of "troubled past" that chevrolet, ford and crysler had just from the 8 mile drive home on friday alone. Obviously that's not a problem though. Hypocrites!

    BTW: Local news last night(direct quote); "All 4 people in the Piper were killed in the plane."

    Sigh.

    1st rule of flying: Maintain flying speed, as long as you have flying speed you can make the plane do what you want it to.
     
  13. Toby

    Toby Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,076
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Toby Speed
    Newspaper articles always say "the engine stalled."

    It sounds like a typical stall/spin accident, but there was also reference to "sputtering" and someone else thought he heard the engine stop three times. Very sad for the sightseers, who must have been so excited to take that ride.
     
  14. Nav8tor

    Nav8tor Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Nav8tor
  15. tom.

    tom. Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    The excellent media report I heard referred to the cause as a "severe tailspin." What in the world is that?!? Now I'm going to have to answer another volley of stupid questions at work tomorrow.
     
  16. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,944
    Location:
    New York City
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skip Miller
    Here is a view of the chart of the area. The airspace has a 1,500 foot ceiling (JFK Class B above and to the east the B space goes to the surface) but that's the only complication in the immediate area
     
  17. fgcason

    fgcason En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Location:
    Nomad
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Frank Cason
    A "severe tailspin" is what happens when your dog is chasing you around the end of the sofa in a very tight turn at Vne+5 and his tail is spinning around the opposite direction to counter the linear momentum that's trying to tumble him across the floor.

    No clue how this applies to the empennage of airplanes though. Way too many control linkage issues.
     
  18. Marco

    Marco Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Marco
    I still can't believe this.

    I saw the name of the pilot and I still can't link him to the person.

    This was one of my instructors at Linden back when I was a student pilot.

    I talked to him just saturday morning. I was there to drop my plane for a mechanic at Linden.

    I stopped by the school and I talked to him for about half an hour ... chatting and catching up.

    That same day. Saturday. Yesterday morning.

    I keep thinking it's just a big mistake. It's somebody else ... not him. I keep thinking I am going to go back to the school and there he will be ...
     
    T Bone likes this.
  19. silver-eagle

    silver-eagle En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,649
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ~John
    Never a shortage of that at work.
     
  20. woodstock

    woodstock Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    9,353
    Location:
    Out of a suitcase
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iTravel
    I'm really sorry to hear this and especially for his friends and family. :(
     
  21. Carol

    Carol Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    928
    Location:
    SC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Carol

    I am so sorry for you, Marco. I have lost a close friend in a crash. The initial disbelief is so strong. So is the ensuing grief.
     
  22. corjulo

    corjulo Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    644
    Location:
    Avon Connecticut
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Corjulo
    You got a figure a few hundred more feet and he could have broken the spin. Unless it was a control issues
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2005
  23. inav8r

    inav8r Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    Indiana, US
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mike B.
    I just got off the phone with my Dad (from W.Va.) and I found out that the passengers on this flight were personal friends of his who lived near him. It was a sightseeing trip for them (not a discovery flight). My dad was pretty shaken up about this, and said he now is worried about me flying.
     
  24. inav8r

    inav8r Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    Indiana, US
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mike B.
    My dad got his information from a family member of the deceased pax... So I dunno, i'm not trying to say the AP is wrong. It's 2nd hand information either way you look at it.
     
  25. RogerT

    RogerT Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Lake Placid, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    RogerT
    Very sad deal. My condolences to those who knew the people
    on board.
     
  26. glpilot

    glpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Loganville, GA.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GLPilot
    *ONLY* 1900 hours of flight time? ONLY? They make it sound like he was a low time recreational pilot. :dunno:
     
  27. tonyliotta

    tonyliotta Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Perry Hall, MD
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tony
    I do not know the details of this accident, but four souls onboard a C-172S? Even if the craft was not overweight, the CG may have been aft of limits. Stalling at low altitude, it may not have been possible to get the nose down to break the stall. I love the C-172, but consider it a "2+ passenger craft."

    Tony
     
  28. glpilot

    glpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Loganville, GA.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GLPilot
    I thought the same thing when I saw 4 people. Unless they were all very skinny. Still, I fly an R model Skyhawk and only feel comfortable with 3 people max (keep it under max weight) and then on top of that I only fill the tanks to the tabs. With the people I usually go with I can keep within CG and be under weight yet have plenty of fuel to do a decent XC.

    Not to pollute the thread but looks like a 182 went down in my home state of CT. Ill be flying home (Delta not Cessna LOL) from GA. to CT. to visit friends family next week. Perfect timing, they can all grill me a little more:
    http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=3379827

    I need to keep my wife away from the news this evening :rofl:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2005
  29. poadeleted3

    poadeleted3 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,056
    At least a couple of the passengers were female, which increases the odds they were under the 170 pound "standard" passenger size. All the Skyhawk SPs I fly will easily carry 3 "standard" adults, full gas, and a bit left over. With two adults up front, it's unlikely you'll be out of limits unless the back seaters are BIG.