Plane crashes into vehicles just short of KWHP (Los Angeles)

It would be interesting to know if he tried pulling out the prop control, since that actually does improve glide performance.
I don't think so. Pulling the prop control out tells the governor to increase pitch to limit the RPM to a specific number, and it takes power to spin up to that RPM. Try pulling your prop control all the way out at idle sometime. Try it at 1200 RPM. See if it does anything. The governor has its limits.
 
I don't think so. Pulling the prop control out tells the governor to increase pitch to limit the RPM to a specific number, and it takes power to spin up to that RPM. Try pulling your prop control all the way out at idle sometime. Try it at 1200 RPM. See if it does anything.

Backward. Out is low RPM and high pitch.
 
Backward. Out is low RPM and high pitch.
And high pitch is what you'd want to reduce the drag on the windmilling prop. Next best thing to feathering. My point is that the governor's range usually doesn't extend down to windmilling RPMs
 
Interesting. Really impossible to tell distances in the photo but a standard road, even a one-lane, is wider than a 182 wingspan, so the brain says “looks doable” at first glance of an online photo with no distance context.
Using the aerial view in google maps to get scale, the street appears to be 30-32 feet wide. Assuming 32' and adding another 4' for the distance from the curbs to the poles, you would get EXACTLY the wingspan. I suspect that the 32' and 4' assumptions are both generous.
 
And high pitch is what you'd want to reduce the drag on the windmilling prop. Next best thing to feathering. My point is that the governor's range usually doesn't extend down to windmilling RPMs

Works fine on mine and every other one I’ve tried. If there’s still oil pressure it’ll assure the prop stays “as feathered” as the design allows, assuming it isn’t already there, as you say.

If it’s already against the high pitch stops it won’t change anything, but at higher airspeeds it won’t be. And pulling it will lower RPM and pitch them mi toe, depending on how fast it’s windmilling.

If the power loss includes stopping the engine driven oil pump, the spring is going to pull it flat anyway. But windmilling, might as well pull it out and make sure any oil pressure still available is fighting the spring and trying to hold it on the high pitch stops.

It’s one of those “Doesn’t hurt, but may not help.” things. Depends on airspeed.

Kinda like moving the handle in a twin that has auto-feathering. It already feathered but you don’t want it going back. Of course even without auto-feather if you lose oil pressure in those, they’re going the other direction.

Not very hard for twin drivers to remember either. Ha. If it’s dead, pull the blue handle out. Works in either type, just may already be there in a slow flying single or may be impossible to move it if all the oil already went overboard. :)
 
I don't think so. Pulling the prop control out tells the governor to increase pitch to limit the RPM to a specific number, and it takes power to spin up to that RPM. Try pulling your prop control all the way out at idle sometime. Try it at 1200 RPM. See if it does anything. The governor has its limits.
I have tried it with the throttle set to idle power. The difference is quite noticeable.

Are you saying that the prop control will have no effect on the prop pitch?
 
Using the aerial view in google maps to get scale, the street appears to be 30-32 feet wide. Assuming 32' and adding another 4' for the distance from the curbs to the poles, you would get EXACTLY the wingspan. I suspect that the 32' and 4' assumptions are both generous.

Man that’s tight. Ugly. Sounds like “under” wasn’t an option then without adding significant bank plus a slip to go straight thru it... and that wouldn’t have been an option based in most of our realities either.
 
Works fine on mine and every other one I’ve tried. If there’s still oil pressure it’ll assure the prop stays “as feathered” as the design allows, assuming it isn’t already there, as you say.

If it’s already against the high pitch stops it won’t change anything, but at higher airspeeds it won’t be. And pulling it will lower RPM and pitch them mi toe, depending on how fast it’s windmilling.

If the power loss includes stopping the engine driven oil pump, the spring is going to pull it flat anyway. But windmilling, might as well pull it out and make sure any oil pressure still available is fighting the spring and trying to hold it on the high pitch stops.

It’s one of those “Doesn’t hurt, but may not help.” things. Depends on airspeed.

Kinda like moving the handle in a twin that has auto-feathering. It already feathered but you don’t want it going back. Of course even without auto-feather if you lose oil pressure in those, they’re going the other direction.

Not very hard for twin drivers to remember either. Ha. If it’s dead, pull the blue handle out. Works in either type, just may already be there in a slow flying single or may be impossible to move it if all the oil already went overboard. :)

I was doing power off 180s in an A36 for a CPL rating a few years ago, and you could really extend the glide by pulling the prop all the way back. That was with power at idle and some oil pressure still available, which may not have been the case here.
 
Interesting. Really impossible to tell distances in the photo but a standard road, even a one-lane, is wider than a 182 wingspan, so the brain says “looks doable” at first glance of an online photo with no distance context.
Not in my neck of the woods. Most high-wing Cessnas are 36' wingpan, plus or minus a few inches. The two-lanes around here are 24' from white line to white line, and may not even have shoulders. Rural roads are narrower, 20' or even less.
 
Per the "Ruler" feature of Google Earth, the power poles appear on either side of the street appear to be about 39 feet apart. That's less clearance for a C-182's wingtips (36' span) than Paul Mantz had when he flew the Twin Beech through the billboard.

Screen Shot 2020-11-18 at 8.17.25 PM.jpg
 
Personally, I think it works way better if you keep flying the airplane. I'd rather land in a neighborhood than crash at an airport.
 
Per the "Ruler" feature of Google Earth, the power poles appear on either side of the street appear to be about 39 feet apart. That's less clearance for a C-182's wingtips (36' span) than Paul Mantz had when he flew the Twin Beech through the billboard.

View attachment 91937
Now I need to go find that feature. I have several measurements that I would like to make with that.
 
That is a 729 foot displaced threshold. He came up almost 1000' short of his intended touchdown point. Good reminder to fly a tight pattern and steep approach, especially in a dense urban area with zero off-airfield landing options.
 
That is a 729 foot displaced threshold. He came up almost 1000' short of his intended touchdown point. Good reminder to fly a tight pattern and steep approach, especially in a dense urban area with zero off-airfield landing options.
I would not assume that he meant to make the displaced threshold. The pavement that starts at the perimeter fence would have been plenty good enough, and was most likely his intended touchdown spot. Displaced thresholds mean absolutely nothing in an emergency.
 
Also, he was not flying a pattern at all. He was already cleared to land straight in when the problem started.
 
I am 100% confident he intended to make the displaced threshold BEFORE the loss of power. The fact that he fell so far short AFTER he lost power indicates his approach was low and flat.
 
I wonder if he pulled the flaps after the engine failed?
 
That is a 729 foot displaced threshold. He came up almost 1000' short of his intended touchdown point. Good reminder to fly a tight pattern and steep approach, especially in a dense urban area with zero off-airfield landing options.

I'm creating a list of "reminders" I've learned from accident reports and this forum. Ed, that's a good one, added to the top. I tend to fly tight patterns (but not quite a regular "break" or circle approach), but

* Make your pattern tight esp. with few off-field landing options
* Aim for 1/3 of the runway (or mid-field) when landing dead-stick ("better to to off the end of the runway at low speed, than land short at high speed)
* Fly with life vests under your seat or in reach (they are only $85) so you can more comfortably choose a body of water in the event of an off-airport forced landing
* If IFR over widespread low ceilings, plan ahead to know the direction of higher ceilings along your route, to be prepared to turn toward if needed.
* Be mindful to ask a passenger to read your emergency checklist for you while you aviate & navigate
* Flight plan over lower terrain dotted with airports rather than "direct" over desolate terrain. You will be much happier with landing options if needed than the penalty of 10-15 minutes enroute! <-- this is mine, from an actual engine failure I encountered with little drama due to a last-minute route change I made before departure.

Oh, and I don't fly single engine in IMC over mountainous terrain at night any more (pick any two...)

You're infinitely less likely to win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

-Paul
 
This is also why you learn how to slip to a landing. If you end up too high, you can usually lose a lot of altitude in most planes and get in much steeper...
 
This is also why you learn how to slip to a landing. If you end up too high, you can usually lose a lot of altitude in most planes and get in much steeper...
I wish my C150 could actually slip a darn. Woe the little ineffective rudder of a docile trainer. But I do have the 40 degree barn door flaps and with those I can point the nose *almost* straight down and lose a lot of altitude without getting out of the white arc no matter how hard I try. Get the wheels on the pavement in an emergency, I don't care if I am a little fast and crash through the fence on the other end. It worked on my emergency landing at Danbury. High and fast into the short runway, but just pulled full flaps and pointed it down, landed a bit long but with 3400' and only needing 500' to actually stop, who cares. I was not going to try to do a pattern with a fuel issue.
 
Hmm. C-150 barn door flaps definitely work but every one I’ve flown also slips decently. Much better than a DA-20.
 
Hmm. C-150 barn door flaps definitely work but every one I’ve flown also slips decently. Much better than a DA-20.
I guess most of the time I am slipping with flaps already in and it doesn’t seems to make much difference at the slow airspeed with the tail blanketed by the flaps.

Perhaps I can descend faster in a slip with 30 flaps than I can in 40 flaps alone. Have to test it.
 
The 150/150 I flew when I used to tow gliders was fun to land. With a 200’ rope behind me I always came in high. Flaps 40, a windscreen full of ground, and a slip if required did the job. With 40 flaps I don’t remember needing to slip very often. I wasn’t there at the time but I was always told the story about the time one of the tow pilots snagged the power line with the rope. The rope broke, like it’s supposed to, but it also knocked out power to a lot of people. I didn’t want to be that guy.
 
I am 100% confident he intended to make the displaced threshold BEFORE the loss of power. The fact that he fell so far short AFTER he lost power indicates his approach was low and flat.
That is true, but unavoidable when flying into a Class D airport that is below Class C airspace for the adjacent airport.
 
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