Pitts Jitters

Biil, any updates? Thinking back on my Pitts checkout brings some fond memories...

I actually fly the same Pitts from Attitude @ LVK. I've been flying with them since I started getting checked out in their S2B back in late 2003. It was replaced by this C model in 2004. And like you, my acro before that was in a SuperD. The Pitts is something else, for sure.

One bit of advice for when you finish the checkout (if you haven't already) - take up an instructor once in awhile. Every time, I get some new pointers, and I usually learn a new maneuver or two as well (discussed during the preflight briefing). I suppose this is true for all airplanes, but not all of them have the "ok, today I want to learn torque rolls and tailslides" facet :)
 
Pitts owners and/or anybody who has flown one,

My homebuilt S-1 with Ultimate Wings will fly itself in smooth air. I notice everyone else I have talked to or read about say they were unstable and would go out of control. I have flown without touching the stick or rudder pedals for over 25nm and think it would keep going until zero fuel. The cockpit is pretty tight but by leaning sideways the inch or so that is possible, I could start a very slow turn in either direction. I do not know if this is characteristic of the Ultimate Wings or if my Pitts is just a rare one that must be rigged perfectly or something. Has anyone else done this?
 
Had to stop for a while, spending waaay too much money, really miss it. May get back at it in the fall. Sounds like you are really enjoying yours, I'm jealous :)
 
My acro training got delayed until next spring for a couple of reasons.:frown3: I have a question for Pitts owners/pilots about props. I have a 76" diameter/ 56" pitch prop on my Pitts and it will turn 2950 rpm flat out level flight(160mph indicated). The Lycoming redline is 2700 rpm. How fast do you guys run them? Will it take 3000 rpm? Do I need a different prop? Thanks.

Rick
 
B2Soar said:
My acro training got delayed until next spring for a couple of reasons.:frown3: I have a question for Pitts owners/pilots about props. I have a 76" diameter/ 56" pitch prop on my Pitts and it will turn 2950 rpm flat out level flight(160mph indicated). The Lycoming redline is 2700 rpm. How fast do you guys run them? Will it take 3000 rpm? Do I need a different prop? Thanks.

Rick
Click to expand...

Red-line is a goal--not a limit! :)
 
B2Soar said:
My acro training got delayed until next spring for a couple of reasons.:frown3: I have a question for Pitts owners/pilots about props. I have a 76" diameter/ 56" pitch prop on my Pitts and it will turn 2950 rpm flat out level flight(160mph indicated). The Lycoming redline is 2700 rpm. How fast do you guys run them? Will it take 3000 rpm? Do I need a different prop? Thanks.

Rick
Click to expand...

This is what Lycoming has to say on the matter, in case it matters to anyone:

http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-bulletins/pdfs/SB369J.pdf

I'd be inclined to say you need a different prop that respects the limits on your engine, or else that you be more diligent with the throttle. Remember that with a fixed pitch prop you will need to adjust your throttle in certain situations to prevent an overspeed. That's one of the advantages of constant speed props - they'll adjust to make sure you don't overspeed (provided they work correctly).
 
B2Soar said:
Pitts owners and/or anybody who has flown one,

My homebuilt S-1 with Ultimate Wings will fly itself in smooth air. I notice everyone else I have talked to or read about say they were unstable and would go out of control. I have flown without touching the stick or rudder pedals for over 25nm and think it would keep going until zero fuel. The cockpit is pretty tight but by leaning sideways the inch or so that is possible, I could start a very slow turn in either direction. I do not know if this is characteristic of the Ultimate Wings or if my Pitts is just a rare one that must be rigged perfectly or something. Has anyone else done this?
Click to expand...

Sounds like a perfectly rigged biplane - congratulations! That must be a joy to fly.
 
"That must be a joy to fly." ------ Yes, so much fun that it seems like it should be illegal! I have also read that there is an inverse relationship between stability and aerobatic performance. Is that something I should worry about?

Rick
 

Attachments

  • 101008 110.jpg
    101008 110.jpg
    2.7 MB · Views: 37
B2Soar said:
"That must be a joy to fly." ------ Yes, so much fun that it seems like it should be illegal! I have also read that there is an inverse relationship between stability and aerobatic performance. Is that something I should worry about?

Rick
Click to expand...

Naah... I've flown this one: http://iac78.org/members/P-rex.htm - it's no problem at all as long as you aren't anywhere near a runway (and I didn't even hint that I might want to try that part). For "normal" flying you can fly it with just your thumb and forefinger while your hand is resting on your leg - effortless. (No, I'm not in either video below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oP2H_H4_gc

Here's a video by a first timer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYoUaQ80FR4&feature=related

I recommend clicking on "More From: pulsejet1 " for more entertainment.
 
B2Soar said:
"That must be a joy to fly." ------ Yes, so much fun that it seems like it should be illegal! I have also read that there is an inverse relationship between stability and aerobatic performance. Is that something I should worry about?
Click to expand...

Naaa, it's something you should look forward to. Seriously though, if by "stability" you mean it doesn't do anything I don't tell it to do, then a Pitts is the most honest aircraft you'll ever fly. It does exactly what you tell it to do the instant you tell it to do it. What it doesn't do, is fly itself or land itself and it requires some skill to do both well. Having lots of aileron authority for great roll rate means lots of adverse yaw and you'll have to learn how to use your feet if you don't know already. Having a big prop out there creates more gyroscopic force. Neither of these things is new to any pilot but it might be the first airplane many people fly that require you to understand it and fly it properly. It's like a formula one race car - would you call that level of responsiveness unstable?

Take offs and landings are an acquired skill. But nothing that any pilot can't do with some good instruction.
 
"Is that something I should worry about?"----- Stability was what I meant by not having to touch either rudders or stick in smooth air. Many say if they let go of any controls their Pitts will take them on a wild ride right now! Mine does not. What I meant to ask was if my Pitts is obviously very stable straight and level, will it probably be a dog when I want to do the exciting upside down stuff?

Rick
 
B2Soar said:
What I meant to ask was if my Pitts is obviously very stable straight and level, will it probably be a dog when I want to do the exciting upside down stuff?
Click to expand...
I highly doubt it. It is just well built and well rigged. It will do fine.
 
B2Soar said:
Stability was what I meant by not having to touch either rudders or stick in smooth air.
Click to expand...

Exactly what jesse said. My S-2C will fly hands off in smooth air for a long time and it's plenty agile.
 
B2Soar said:
"Is that something I should worry about?"----- Stability was what I meant by not having to touch either rudders or stick in smooth air. Many say if they let go of any controls their Pitts will take them on a wild ride right now! Mine does not. What I meant to ask was if my Pitts is obviously very stable straight and level, will it probably be a dog when I want to do the exciting upside down stuff?

Rick
Click to expand...

I don't know Rick, it could be a very dangerous airplane. I suggest you bring it to me ASAP and let me put 20 or 30 hours on it to make sure everything is OK!!! :rofl:

Like Jesse said, yours is just rigged very well. When you want it to misbehave I'm sure it will be happy to do exactly what you tell it to do immediately upon being told to do it. It is, after all, a Pitts.
 
20 or 30 hours? I think 20 or 30 minutes should do. I want to watch.

Rick
 
B2Soar said:
My acro training got delayed until next spring for a couple of reasons.:frown3: I have a question for Pitts owners/pilots about props. I have a 76" diameter/ 56" pitch prop on my Pitts and it will turn 2950 rpm flat out level flight(160mph indicated). The Lycoming redline is 2700 rpm. How fast do you guys run them? Will it take 3000 rpm? Do I need a different prop? Thanks.
Click to expand...

How many hours do you want to run it between overhauls?
 
B2Soar said:
My acro training got delayed until next spring for a couple of reasons.:frown3: I have a question for Pitts owners/pilots about props. I have a 76" diameter/ 56" pitch prop on my Pitts and it will turn 2950 rpm flat out level flight(160mph indicated). The Lycoming redline is 2700 rpm. How fast do you guys run them? Will it take 3000 rpm? Do I need a different prop? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Is this on an S-1S?

Many S-1S owners use props like this and run them balls-to-the-wall for excellent performance. Do that, and you'll be doing an engine overhaul every 400 hours. Check the for sale listings and you'll see just that.

Do you need a different prop? Depends. If you want max performance and are willing to accept very short engine life as a tradeoff, then no. If you don't mind giving up some performance in exchange for being nicer to your engine, then yes.

As with everything in life, there is no "one-size-fits-all" answer.
 
Hello Ken, John,

It is a 1970 built Pitts with Ultimate wings attached in 1985.

I am thinking 400 hours of balls to walls fun would not be too bad. Do you guys know what fails with this type of abuse and what symptoms to watch for? It would be nice to catch it before parts left the aircraft.

Rick
 
im no expert, but the pitts is a lousy glider...
 
B2Soar said:
Hello Ken, John,

It is a 1970 built Pitts with Ultimate wings attached in 1985.

I am thinking 400 hours of balls to walls fun would not be too bad. Do you guys know what fails with this type of abuse and what symptoms to watch for? It would be nice to catch it before parts left the aircraft.

Rick
Click to expand...

They don't call 'em experimental for nothing. I would suggest that, if you don't feel confident enough in your Pitts health assessment skills to bet your life on them, that you find someone that you do trust that much and ask them the same question. How much do you know about the history of the airplane?
 
gibbons said:
I don't know Rick, it could be a very dangerous airplane. I suggest you bring it to me ASAP and let me put 20 or 30 hours on it to make sure everything is OK!!! :rofl:
Click to expand...
Watch out for the wheat fields. :smilewinkgrin:

I just ran across this photo yesterday. :) It was about 10 degrees that day, wasn't it?
 

Attachments

  • Pitts at Twin Oaks (600 x 450).jpg
    Pitts at Twin Oaks (600 x 450).jpg
    82.7 KB · Views: 45
Nice looking Pitts Diana. S-2A? Do you fly it?

Low oil pressure is about the only engine problem I have encountered. (not on a Pitts) If not noticed that could mess up an otherwise fine day!

The logs on my Pitts show about 3 ground loops with varying amounts of repairs following. The engine would get from 2 to about 50 hours between teardowns. Then a new owner. The last two only flew 12 hours or less. With full 20 gallons of fuel the weight limit is 200 pounds. Both guys got well over 200 pounds and with a parachute busted weight limits. A pretty good incentive for me not to develop a pot gut!

Rick
 
B2Soar said:
It is a 1970 built Pitts with Ultimate wings attached in 1985.
I am thinking 400 hours of balls to walls fun would not be too bad. Do you guys know what fails with this type of abuse and what symptoms to watch for? It would be nice to catch it before parts left the aircraft.
Click to expand...

1) What level of aerobatics are you doing/did the previous owner(s) do?
2) When was the last time the aircraft was recovered?
[check wings for cracks/breaks and tail feathers for corrosion]
3) Were snap rolls performed on a regular basis by the previous owner(s) or yourself? [check longerons]
4) When was the last time the fuel tank was pulled and inspected for cracks?
5) Cabane struts... cannot remember the specifics on problems
6) Are you doing/have previous owner's done torque rolls? What type of crankshaft does it have?
[broken crankshaft resulting in loss of propellor]

These are the things that come to mind after 25+ years of being in the IAC.
 
Diana said:
Watch out for the wheat fields. :smilewinkgrin:

I just ran across this photo yesterday. :) It was about 10 degrees that day, wasn't it?
Click to expand...

My logbook says it was 11. Fortunately for me the heater worked perfectly and the canopy hardly leaked any air - NOT. :yikes: I nearly froze!!

I do believe that's the first time I met you and Tom (January 2004), so however cold it was it was worth it. :smile:


john smith said:
5) Cabane struts... cannot remember the specifics on problems
.
Click to expand...

I believe this is an issue with S2B's (which was essentially an A model redesigned by Aerotek for the larger engine - without input from Curtis Pitts). The heavier engine caused some problems with cracks in the welds in the cabanes due, primarily, to high speed snap rolls. The AD filtered down to the S2A because that's the way the FAA does things, but it was completely unwarranted. I may have some of the details wrong, but I believe that is essentially it. I seriously doubt that the S1's have any serious cabane issues.

john smith said:
6) Are you doing/have previous owner's done torque rolls? What type of crankshaft does it have?
[broken crankshaft resulting in loss of propellor]
Click to expand...

By torque rolls you may be referring to what I would call tumbles, potentially a serious crankshaft issue for solid crank, heavy prop airplanes. I know a few pilots who do tumble their S1's with solid cranks and wooden props.
 
B2Soar said:
Nice looking Pitts Diana. S-2A? Do you fly it?

Low oil pressure is about the only engine problem I have encountered. (not on a Pitts) If not noticed that could mess up an otherwise fine day!
Click to expand...

Does the engine have an inverted oil system?
 
gibbons said:
My logbook says it was 11. Fortunately for me the heater worked perfectly and the canopy hardly leaked any air - NOT. :yikes: I nearly froze!!

I do believe that's the first time I met you and Tom (January 2004), so however cold it was it was worth it. :smile:
Click to expand...
:) And I've been begging rides in your airplanes ever since, and have been a general PITA. :D
 
Lance, My Pitts does have inverted fuel and oil.

Diana, Nice hangar! I have a solution for your problem. There is PLENTY of room to squeeze 2 of these little 1 place Pitts in there. One each for you and your sweety. Everybody happy. Problem solved. Nice Christmas presents also!:)

Rick
 

Attachments

  • 101008 111.jpg
    101008 111.jpg
    3 MB · Views: 37
B2Soar said:
Diana, Nice hangar! I have a solution for your problem. There is PLENTY of room to squeeze 2 of these little 1 place Pitts in there. One each for you and your sweety. Everybody happy. Problem solved. Nice Christmas presents also!:)
Click to expand...

A girl can dream. :yes:

Nice picture of your Pitts! It looks eager to fly. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top