PIREPS on Square.com Credit Card Processing

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
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Considering adding Square.com as an option for customers to pay for their items.

Any info you want to share is appreciated. Alternative solutions welcome.

Needs are:
  • Can process the 4 major card types
  • Mobile processing (smart phone swipe),
  • Point of Sale Swipe (like current terminals in use at stores/restaurants)
  • Virtual Terminal (I take info over phone, use web interface to process)
  • Online Invoice (you call for item, I post invoice on web page, you click your cart and pay for it)
  • Reasonable costs, & known fees (without the funny business of how qualified the card is)
  • Fast drops into bank accounts,
  • Easy for staff and customers to use
  • Secure and stable
  • Decent anti-fraud tools.
  • Simple Analytics.
 
Square is awesome. We just dumped our bank merchant service agreement and went with Square. We run more high dollar infrequent charges, but has worked out great so far. I always thought that Square was for hair dressers and coffee shops but turns out not so. Our first charge was for just over $20K with no problems.

Here is what I can answer for ya:


  • Can process the 4 major card type
Yes, they take them all...no separate approval for each card


  • Mobile processing (smart phone swipe),
You can swipe or manually enter the info on your phone. Just did that yesterday on a client's site.


  • Point of Sale Swipe (like current terminals in use at stores/restaurants)
They make Ipad integrated POS systems for retail locations. Don't think they integrate yet with a traditional POS system but out here in CA there are used by all kinds of shops as their primary POS and payment systems.


  • Virtual Terminal (I take info over phone, use web interface to process)
You punch in the info to a device with the Square app rather than a web portal.


  • Reasonable costs, & known fees (without the funny business of how qualified the card is)
2.75% flat fee for swiped cards, 3.5% +$.15 for manually entered info. E commerce integrations are 2.9% + $.30. No other BS fees or monthly charges.


  • Fast drops into bank accounts,
I typically see the money in one to two business days


  • Easy for staff and customers to use
Very easy interface


  • Simple Analytics.
The web reports are insanely detailed.


I am a fan. It is pretty much free so you have nothing to loose by setting up an account and trying it out to see how it works for you before you ditch your current Merchant Service account.
 
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Is PCI compliance an issue for you? PCI compliance as I understand it on these devices requires encryption within the device not on the phone it is attached to. I do not believe square does this but maybe that has changed.
 
We've been with them for a few years now, because we were tired of the surprise and shifty fees (we take a lot of biz cards)

Love em. The invoices are emailed to the client, they pay Square directly, and they charge the same swipe rate of 2.75% for any card.

We will frequently deliver a plane to a client, and they are sort of impressed that we can bust out a square reader and swipe their card in the field right there -- sort of ends the game of "the check is in the mail". Works on every device we own, the readers are free, so we have a few of them lying all around just in case.

No complaints. Yes I'd love to pay less in transaction costs, but every time we've tried one (we've done Costco, Sams, and Chase -- all the same BS) they promise "as low as 1.49%" then average out to 4+. I don't want to limit my clients or nudge them to using the "Grandma's Basic Visa Prepaid" 1.49% card instead of the "BlingCard(tm)" which has the high fees. It's embarassing for everyone to do that crap.

$0.02 (@ 2.75% swiped/3.5% keyed)
 
How's that going to change with the new chipped cards? My credit card machine must be upgraded to a chip reader by October. No choice. And after that any card transactions I choose to make without plugging the card into the reader are completely at my risk. So no more cards over the phone. Internet and phone sales are about to change.
 
Pay my CFI and the local BBQ in El Segundo with Square - no issues
 
I experienced lousy customer service from them when I was thinking about going to them. I had a simple question that I could not get answered online and I was unable to talk to a real person. I went with the PayPal reader and it works great and you can talk to real people if you have a question. Yea, I know some people don't like PayPal, but I have used them for years and have never had a problem. Hope this helps. Glenn
 
Huge fan here. It just works every time with no drama.

We don't take cards often, but when we do the amounts are large. Easy with square, we had problems in the past with other services since our changes don't follow a predictable path.
 
It's a neat and convenient service. My dad has used it, and seemed to like it. Rather than having to use a credit card machine from the bank and pay a higher % of total profit, the square is completely free and it doesnt take out as high of a % as your typical bank loaned credit card machine would. During setup you link it directly to your bank account so funds transfer right in, Im sure you will find it useful.
 
As a consumer, I've had good experiences with Square. Once they have your email on file, receipts are immediately emailed to you after the transaction completes for all merchants who use Square. No waiting for paper receipts to print or having to enter an email address at every merchant.

However, once Square has your email address, there appears to be no way for you to change it, though you can elect to "unsubscribe" from the receipt service. I'm not exactly clear on how all of this works on the backend, or whether it might put the merchant on the hook for this type of consumer support.


JKG
 
THEY SUCK ASS!!!!! I called them in advance and told them how much our average charge is and they we're "yaeh yaeh - we want your business". Day 1: 3 transactions - all frozen.. Finally resolved. Day 2 frozen again. Went back to a real credit card processor.....
 
How's that going to change with the new chipped cards? My credit card machine must be upgraded to a chip reader by October. No choice. And after that any card transactions I choose to make without plugging the card into the reader are completely at my risk. So no more cards over the phone. Internet and phone sales are about to change.

You'd better understand the answer to this post, because he is correct about the deadline and the shift in liability. Square needs a solution for the new cards.

That said, I used it for the first time to pay for cab fare to/from the airport and thought it was super easy and convenient and the receipts showed up in my inbox.
 
We use it for EAA Chapter. Works well for that application. It will not do some of the things you're looking for.

Have you checked out Amazon also?
 
THEY SUCK ASS!!!!! I called them in advance and told them how much our average charge is and they we're "yaeh yaeh - we want your business". Day 1: 3 transactions - all frozen.. Finally resolved. Day 2 frozen again. Went back to a real credit card processor.....

We had this with both First Data and Square. Once you get a risk history sorted out with either one, they fund the next day. Took us 2 months to get square comfy with us, now we're at a 100K/mo limit before shenanigans take hold. If we get close to that number, we'll push for a daily limit increase (and it will be our third) -- I don't yet know how Square handles chargebacks. First Data was a damn chore with multiple rounds of FAX (!) each time, and a different overseas moron reviewing the case file each round. Maddening for a complex business.

I think this is the new reality with CC fraud stuff out there. I imagine every business is viewed differently and seasons differently.
 
When I'm not teaching people how to fly airplanes, or posting on this website, I'm the CTO of a payments company. PM me your number and a time you can chat. If we're not a good fit, I'll tell you who would be.

https://www.paymentspring.com
 
We had this with both First Data and Square. Once you get a risk history sorted out with either one, they fund the next day. Took us 2 months to get square comfy with us, now we're at a 100K/mo limit before shenanigans take hold. If we get close to that number, we'll push for a daily limit increase (and it will be our third) -- I don't yet know how Square handles chargebacks. First Data was a damn chore with multiple rounds of FAX (!) each time, and a different overseas moron reviewing the case file each round. Maddening for a complex business.

I think this is the new reality with CC fraud stuff out there. I imagine every business is viewed differently and seasons differently.

First Data is a demon spawed from the 7th layer of hell. I'd starve before I'd use them for anything.
 
When I'm not teaching people how to fly airplanes, or posting on this website, I'm the CTO of a payments company. PM me your number and a time you can chat. If we're not a good fit, I'll tell you who would be.

https://www.paymentspring.com

Call the salvage yard number. But let me schedule some time first.
 
First Data is a demon spawed from the 7th layer of hell. I'd starve before I'd use them for anything.

You use them for lots and don't know it. They process 45% of all the US debit and credit card transactions.

Most everything spins up to TSYS or FirstData in the end.

They both suck badly to interact with.
 
All I need to know about square is here on their prohibited items list.

https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5089-prohibited-goods-and-services-with-square-register


Sales of (i) firearms, firearm parts or hardware, and ammunition; or (ii) weapons and other devices designed to cause physical injury

**** them. If I were to purchase from you and noticed you're usinq square.com. I'm going to say thanks but no thanks.

Really? You would boycott a business because they used a payment processor that doesn't process payments for guns and ammo? So like, you'd be flipping off your grocer if they used Chase Payments and storm out, leaving a cartload of groceries in the checkout lane?

Curious!


So.. PayPal is out for you:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full

which is of course owned by eBay, so F them.


Chase Paymentech is out for you (although they don't seem to publish their prohibited verticals -- here's an anecdotal)

https://www.facebook.com/THE.PATRIOT.NATION.REDUX/posts/240997042723931

Who knows how far the Chase empire octopus goes and what other businesses it controls.



Better cancel your Amazon Prime account

https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/about?nodeId=6023



Quickbooks/Intuit payments are mostly out:

http://quickbooks.intuit.com/legal/payments/acceptable-use/

no gunpowder sales, which I assume kills off ammunition, and no mail-order or telephone-order firearms.

So... no turbotax for you this year? no quickbooks? :)


I'm assuming I won't be faced with such a customer concern here in socialist gun-hating Kalifornia (yes, PoA, it sucks total bawls here, tell me another time, kaythanks), but your vehemence really gave me pause. I may open up a Stripe account just to have something to point to if one of our clients presents a similarly rabid requirement of their non-firearm vendors..
 
I'm assuming I won't be faced with such a customer concern here in socialist gun-hating Kalifornia (yes, PoA, it sucks total bawls here, tell me another time, kaythanks), but your vehemence really gave me pause. I may open up a Stripe account just to have something to point to if one of our clients presents a similarly rabid requirement of their non-firearm vendors..

Clearly you've never spent time at a Cali range or on CALguns. The local gunners are very good at finding gun-friendly vendors and exploiting loopholes.
 
Clearly you've never spent time at a Cali range or on CALguns. The local gunners are very good at finding gun-friendly vendors and exploiting loopholes.

I shoot at LAX range regularly. I've never crawled up their trumpet to vet the politicization of their banking choices prior to patronizing them, however.

I'm indifferent to the gun "lifestyle" and its attendant politics (so yes, I'm coming from a place of ignorance on these topics), and I've chosen not to own a gun of my own because I am a very lucid/performant sleepwalker.

(The number of complex activities I've done while dreaming/sleepwalking makes me sometimes question keeping the kitchen knives around. It's always good for a chuckle, waking up and explaining to a new girl "Oh, yeah, that... sometimes I do that") heh heh.

Still like to rent an HK .40 and go all Buddy Kane on my troubles every so often though. Who wouldn't? :)
 
Clearly you've never spent time at a Cali range or on CALguns. The local gunners are very good at finding gun-friendly vendors and exploiting loopholes.

Yeah, if you like loading rounds one-at-a-time into your AR-15 or want a really tricked out .22LR. Or a folding-stock SU-16 that can't be fired in the folded position. Or if you like paying $1600 for and old receiver and then another $1600 in parts to assemble your own 10-round rifle that would be legal for 50+ rounds just about anywhere else and only cost $1000.

It's not impossible to own guns in CA but there are costs and compromises that take a certain amount of the joy out of it. Ranges are a bit of an endangered species, too, unless you live in Mohave.


So yeah... All the local mom and pop shops around here appear to be using Square. It's probably worth considering as long as they have a plan for this new chip thing.
 
Please take the gun discussions to a separate thread or spin zone. I'd like to keep this focused on my original questions.
 
All I need to know about square is here on their prohibited items list.

https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5089-prohibited-goods-and-services-with-square-register


Sales of (i) firearms, firearm parts or hardware, and ammunition; or (ii) weapons and other devices designed to cause physical injury

**** them. If I were to purchase from you and noticed you're usinq square.com. I'm going to say thanks but no thanks.

Most of that list appears designed to limit Square's risk exposure rather than to advance some ideological agenda, though the mention of "hate" further down the list is a highly subjective discriminator. Still, I suspect that the goal is to minimize hassle and give them a contractual escape from a truly questionable business. If you're a legitimate gun shop, though, I guess Square is not for you.

I think the recent trend of executives using businesses to promote their own personal ideological agenda is a dangerous one (see: Apple, Inc.), subjecting a business to a test of ideological purity is a fool's errand. There's no way that you can know the ideology of everyone in the supply chain, and if you did, you'd likely find one or more people in every business who wouldn't pass the test. In the end, purchasing from a merchant usually isn't an ideological statement, it's a business transaction.

As for AggieMike, it seems as though you've received some good feedback about Square. I'm not sure what else you're expecting to hear at this point. I suspect that many of the questions raised (such as how to avoid the liability shift with chip & signature cards) would be best directed at Square. Asking some questions of them may also give you a comfort level with their candor and responsiveness before you commit to them.


JKG
 
I have used Square since the time when they called themselves squareup. I basically love them. I was totally sick of usual processors and square offered me exactly what I wanted. Simple, no BS transactions. Other processors expect you to be a banking and credit professional expert to understand their statements. Square is for ordinary humans.

Having said that, they are not the cheapest, so if you do a lot of transactions, you may be better off elsewhere. Additionally, they have this lame deferred payment plan for transactions over a $1000 a week. Once you exceed the threshold, they hold on to your money for a month before they put it into your account. It's an accounting nightmare. They will however up the threshold by request and did so for me. Now that the threshold is up, I'm good with them, but be aware of this policy.

Oh yeah, their website offers a fair amount of analytics, but it's kind of goofy and not always intuitive, but it's 200% better than I got from previous processors.

P.S.- Square has no idea what I sell. I don't tell them. It could be rocket launchers and atom bombs for all they know.
 
Additionally, they have this lame deferred payment plan for transactions over a $1000 a week. Once you exceed the threshold, they hold on to your money for a month before they put it into your account. It's an accounting nightmare. They will however up the threshold by request and did so for me. Now that the threshold is up, I'm good with them, but be aware of this policy.

That's good to know. It's not unusual for me to do $2000-3000 daily in plastic, with the occasional gust to $8000.


Another item I didn't ask about in the first message is about charge backs. My current processor doesn't even notify me in advance it's happening. I only find out somethings up when an unexpected reduction happens on my bank account from them. And then 5-7 days later, I finally get a letter in the mail.

All too often it is something I would have readily resolved if the goofy customer would have had the courtesy to call and speak with me. But instead of the processor asking first for my side of story (like it used to happen years ago), it's guilty and then prove my side.

So what is Square's (or others) policy on this? Jesse... how about your outfit?
 
That's good to know. It's not unusual for me to do $2000-3000 daily in plastic, with the occasional gust to $8000.


Another item I didn't ask about in the first message is about charge backs. My current processor doesn't even notify me in advance it's happening. I only find out somethings up when an unexpected reduction happens on my bank account from them. And then 5-7 days later, I finally get a letter in the mail.

All too often it is something I would have readily resolved if the goofy customer would have had the courtesy to call and speak with me. But instead of the processor asking first for my side of story (like it used to happen years ago), it's guilty and then prove my side.

So what is Square's (or others) policy on this? Jesse... how about your outfit?
At that volume you're kind of beyond where Square makes a lot of sense. You should be considering an interchange plus account. I realize that sounds like more complicated pricing, but in reality it is simpler, and you'll spend less on credit card processing.

I believe Square is going to lock whatever funds exist in your square account for the chargeback amount until it is resolved. As to how it works precisely with us that's an answer better given by one of my coworkers. I deal mostly in the back-end technology, infrastructure, and integrations.

At the end of the day EVERY single credit card is placed into some sort of bucket. That bucket is called the interchange rate, it's a percentage of the transaction. The rates are published.

When you get "flat rate" pricing the company providing that rate is ultimately making a "bet" that the majority of the processing you do will be on credit cards that fall into an interchange bucket that is less than the flat rate they gave you. It is actually possible for the merchant services company to lose money on your account if they bid the "flat rate" too low and you charge a lot of "expensive" (think high rewards) cards. Mostly though, they're pretty good at these bets, and they turn a pretty profit.

Interchange plus pricing means that your merchant services company will say they will charge you say an extra 30 basis points on whatever interchange is. That is their "cut" of the pie. 30 basis points is 0.3%. This means the company providing your merchant account, your statements, supporting you as a customer, etc would get 0.3% of each transaction you process. Your actual cost will vary depending on what interchange rate the card falls into. Margins are thin in this business, almost all the money goes to the card issuing bank..not the company doing your processing.

Typically, both flat rate or interchange pricing will also charge a per-item fee.

For reference, you're not going to find any company that is processing lots of volume, that would EVER take a flat rate merchant account. Flat rate makes sense for small merchants that hardly process that want things to be "simple".

We offer flat rate pricing and interchange plus pricing. You receive your funds in two business days. Each merchant really does have different needs.

PM me a time that works for you to chat. At the very least I can provide you lots of information to make a decision. I'll be honest, Square certainly has considerable strength in some areas over us (they have a hell of a lot of money). With that said we make a LOT more sense for many merchants.
 
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