Piper Cherokee 180 sitting for 4 years

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Brendon

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brendon7358
Hello,

My father was going to learn to fly and bought a plane but never finished and took the wings off the plane and stored it in the back yard. This was 4 years ago. The cockpit has a cover over it and he said he rotated the prop every few months or so. It was annual-ed before it was taken apart. I am learning to fly now and he offered it to me but I am wondering about how much it will cost to get it up and running again. Also if that cost is excessive how much is it worth if I sold it, would it be worth more to just part it out? Thanks!
 
Need more info ,like times on engine and overall shape of interior,exterior,also ,are there any modern avionics.
 
Very little information for us to even begin to provide adequate suggestions.

We're going to need much more information here.
 
I'm sorry, I've moved to a different state and don't have much information. All I know is it is a Piper 180 and it was instrument rated. He will be bringing it here in a week or so and when he does I will bring it to a mechanic to have an estimate done. Until then I was just wondering if anyone had any ballpark estimates or things to watch out for. The interior and exterior was never in amazing shape but fully functional. As for the avionics, like I said instrument rated but that's all I have. Any ideas? Sorry for the lack of information.
 
Brendon said:
I'm sorry, I've moved to a different state and don't have much information. All I know is it is a Piper 180 and it was instrument rated. He will be bringing it here in a week or so and when he does I will bring it to a mechanic to have an estimate done. Until then I was just wondering if anyone had any ballpark estimates or things to watch out for. The interior and exterior was never in amazing shape but fully functional. As for the avionics, like I said instrument rated but that's all I have. Any ideas? Sorry for the lack of information.
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There's no way any of us here can provide you with any information on this airplane without any further detail. Extremely vague

It's like asking somebody, "can you give me an approximate book value of my Honda Civic? It has four tires, a motor and it's painted red."
 
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As long as the wings were removed properly it is not a big job to re-install them on a Cherokee. By "properly" I mean the control cables, wiring, fuel lines, hydraulic brake lines, etc. were correctly disconnected and not just hacked apart (you won't believe how often that happens). If the latter then it becomes a more involved (e.g. expensive) project.

If you have some mechanical aptitude get to know the folks at the closest EAA chapter and with some help from them, and a mechanic who is willing to oversee your work, you can do most of the grunt work yourself and maybe end up with an economical plane. However, before you start anything get the engine looked at. If it has corroded the plane may not be worth much more than parts.
 
Plus if he is going to "give" it to you, consider the cost to get it up to speed vs cost per hour at a flying school. Having your own plane can be more economical.
 
GRG55 said:
However, before you start anything get the engine looked at. If it has corroded the plane may not be worth much more than parts.
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Yeah for sure. Sitting idle in somebody's backyard isn't the best preservation strategy. We all know the results of owners neglect, unfortunately.
 
Backyard, on a trailer in the grass.
 
Off the top of my head.

Pull the tanks. Thorough inspection of wings. Perform SB 3006 and the two others. Fix the hard as rock fuel lines at this time. Clean and test the fuel tanks for leaks, new screws at install. Detailed inspection of the fuselage wing attach points prior to install of wings. Use all new hardware (those bolts and nuts only hold the wings on after all!).
The engine is going to need extra attention as well. Rotating the prop during storage does nothing and actually causes more problems. A detailed initial inspection and then a preoil, followed by a dry start (no fuel to get oil pressure). Get the engine runable and then go from there. If lucky, it will be ok. Fuel system flushed, brake system flushed. New battery. New air filter. Replace instrument hoses and filters. ELT recert and batteries. Transponder and altimeter and encoder recert. Hopefully no mice!

Be ready for all of the little extras and all the labour. Don't skimp at this point, do it right and you will save yourself trouble later. A Cherokee 180 is worthy of some TLC!

This guy has been there done that. Interesting story! http://www.thisoldcherokee.com/
 
Timbeck2 said:
Plus if he is going to "give" it to you, consider the cost to get it up to speed vs cost per hour at a flying school. Having your own plane can be more economical.
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The idea is if it isn't economical to restore it, to sell it and buy something else.
JAWS said:
Off the top of my head.

Pull the tanks. Thorough inspection of wings. Perform SB 3006 and the two others. Fix the hard as rock fuel lines at this time. Clean and test the fuel tanks for leaks, new screws at install. Detailed inspection of the fuselage wing attach points prior to install of wings. Use all new hardware (those bolts and nuts only hold the wings on after all!).
The engine is going to need extra attention as well. Rotating the prop during storage does nothing and actually causes more problems. A detailed initial inspection and then a preoil, followed by a dry start (no fuel to get oil pressure). Get the engine runable and then go from there. If lucky, it will be ok. Fuel system flushed, brake system flushed. New battery. New air filter. Replace instrument hoses and filters. ELT recert and batteries. Transponder and altimeter and encoder recert. Hopefully no mice!

Be ready for all of the little extras and all the labour. Don't skimp at this point, do it right and you will save yourself trouble later. A Cherokee 180 is worthy of some TLC!

This guy has been there done that. Interesting story! http://www.thisoldcherokee.com/
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Thanks for the info! For someone who doesn't know much about what their doing how long do you think this would take? And is it a multiple person job? I don't mind the effort required, I'm just balancing a full time job, and flight training at the moment so time is not something I have a lot of. I hope to be able to get it put together by the time I finish my PPL so I can use it to build time for my instrument rating and commercial. Also possibly do a leaseback with the flight school to make costs more manageable. Looks like it cost that guy a little over $6000, but obviously every situation is different.
 
Well, sitting in the backyard on a trailer in CT is not the best thing for airplane storage. I'm certian that birds, and various other critters have made their home there. Birds, and mice, can render an airplane totally useless in a relatively short time, as their excrement is corrosive to metals, and quite corrosive to aluminum. and mice like to chew on stuff, such as wires, and hoses. Only an extensive inspection of every square inch from spinner to tailpost, will tell you what kind of shape the airframe is in.
A flying Cherokee 180 can be had for under $30k. If the engine on the one in question needs overhaul, due to rust, and corrosion, then you can plan on about $20k just for that.
As been mentioned before, not really enough info to determine anything, I'm just giving "worst case" stuff.
 
How much can be done myself? How hard is it to get the wings back on? Can I do that myself?
 
Brendon said:
How much can be done myself? How hard is it to get the wings back on? Can I do that myself?
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Did you read post #6 above?

Yes, if you organize the correct type of support you can do a lot of the work yourself. But you can't work entirely by yourself. See post #6.

If you want to get a clearer understanding of what is involved in removing/attaching the wings, read the applicable parts of the Piper Service Manual for your plane. Here's a link to a copy of the manual online:
http://www.mikeg.net/library/files/pa28-service.pdf

Go to page 157. That is the table of contents for the Structures section. Read the parts that relate to the wings, flaps, ailerons, and so forth. This will give you a good understanding of what you have to do. Nothing about it is particularly difficult. But it will take time and care to do it properly - even more time if the wings were "hacked off" in a hurry by someone who did not know what they were doing.

And as another person posted above, once you get the wings on there will be more to attend to. Making sure the fuel tanks don't leak, reinstalling the landing gear, replacing hardened and cracked rubber hoses, rigging and tensioning the control surfaces/cables, lubricating the entire airframe, etc. before it will be airworthy.

Note: If you decide to proceed make certain to get the version of the manual that covers your airplane's serial number. The link above was just so you could get an understanding of what is involved.
 
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If it were me, the first thing I would do is see how I could dispose of it if the restoration is too big a task. If you wind up getting a pretty big bill to get it off your hands, then I would politely decline the offer. If you can scrap it out cheaply, then the downside is painless and then follow the other suggestions.

Cheers
 
Brendon said:
The idea is if it isn't economical to restore it, to sell it and buy something else.
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This is just math, not airplane specific: If it was given to you for free, and at free it's not economically feasible to restore, then it is unlikely someone will pay you and then spend more money to restore it (it's econ infeas for them too...unless they are an airplane mechanic themselves (A&P) and can save on labor and parts).
 
It's a suspect airplane now - four years as a critter Hilton/outhouse, engine left to rust, etc. You have a signifcant effort ahead in determining the condition - several days of work, and some $$$ to pay an A&P to look at it.

Still, it could be a find; if your dad bought it with no aviation background, that's a bit of a red flag, too. Like others have said here - figure out what shape it's in and go from there.
 
Brendon said:
How much can be done myself?
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99% provided that you are mechanicaly inclined (and I don't mean replaced a water pump on a 65 chevy six cylinder once), Are anal about following the mantenance manual, and AC43.13 to the "Nth" degree, and have an A&P/IA who is willing to allow you to do it with their livelyhood on the line.
How hard is it to get the wings back on?
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once you have all the jigs, and supports in place, it's not that big of a job.
Can I do that myself?
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it requires two people (would be great if one of those is the A&P/IA who will be signing the logbook) for the big part, unless you have at least one arm that's 12 feet long. The rest is pretty much a one person job. (speaking about putting the wings back on)
 
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