Piper Arrow at tie down with dead battery...how to charge?

So you take your battery out of your plane every time it goes in the hangar too? And don't ever turn on the master.
 
EdFred said:
So you take your battery out of your plane every time it goes in the hangar too? And don't ever turn on the master.
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I don't put the charger on it while it is in the plane and the plane is in the hangar.
 
maduro said:
Ok, here is a head scratcher. My Arrow is parked at a tie down and the battery died(yeup, the master was left on). I can get a Piper external power supply at Aircraft Spruce but I don't have AC power source near by. The Arrow came with an external power cable with aligator clips.....can I connect it directly to a car battery and connect to the airplane to charge the battery? What are my options to get her juiced up again? Thanx in advanced.
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Had a dead one in my Cherokee at a destination airport. FBO said they couldn't charge it for me because they didn't have a service manual for my airplane. However, they could put me in a new one the next day for $700. Took it to Auto Zone and got it charged.
 
Take the battery home and slow charge it overnight. Be aware if the master was left on you may have damaged the battery.
 
Arrow76R said:
The external power port on my '69 Arrow, and other years as far as I can tell, CANNOT be used to charge the battery. It only provides a way to energize the main bus DOWNSTREAM of the battery. It is useful for "jump starting" or running the avionics, etc. but NOT to charge the battery. Check the electrical schematic for your year to see what I mean.
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@Arrow76R, You are correct. Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing an equivalent answer!

-Skip
 
Arrow76R said:
The external power port on my '69 Arrow, and other years as far as I can tell, CANNOT be used to charge the battery. It only provides a way to energize the main bus DOWNSTREAM of the battery. It is useful for "jump starting" or running the avionics, etc. but NOT to charge the battery. Check the electrical schematic for your year to see what I mean.
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there is a cheat for this. I’m not recommending it, but I’m simply giving you the cheat info.

Plug in the external power, then turn on the master switch. This will cause the circuit to complete to the battery, and it will provide a charging path.

would I do this myself? No. Not unless the alternate options were zero.
 
If the battery is completely discharged, I would test it with a battery tester. I like to use one that I bought on Amazon that calculates cranking amps or cold cranking amps and compares to the rated CCA on the battery or from the manufacture. I have used that on solar system batteries, cars, and my plane and they work great. Leaving the battery attached to a solar panel for a couple of days may work as well for recharging. I would want one rated for at least 40 watts.
 
Could a battery failure in flight lead to engine stalling/misbehaving on the Piper Arrow 2 aircraft? The circuit breakers that popped are 'Alternator' and 'Engine Group'. I am trying to understand if there is a correlation between CB popping-battery failure and engine stalling/misbehaving for this particular aircraft. Furthermore, could lose spark plug wires cause engine failure or stall? Please explain.
 
You could have asked in your own thread instead of necroposting to a decade-old thread.
swarajharne said:
Could a battery failure in flight lead to engine stalling/misbehaving on the Piper Arrow 2 aircraft?
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What happens if you turn off the master in flight?
swarajharne said:
Furthermore, could lose spark plug wires cause engine failure or stall?
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What happens if you turn off the mags in flight?
swarajharne said:
Please explain.
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Are you a pilot?
 
GeorgeC said:
You could have asked in your own thread instead of necroposting to a decade-old thread.

What happens if you turn off the master in flight?

What happens if you turn off the mags in flight?

Are you a pilot?
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I am an aerospace engineering student and an aspiring pilot. I am currently working on an assignment and I wanted to understand these components and their functionalities in greater detail.
 
1. Piston prop engines don't "stall"
2. Magneto's are their own electrical source.
3. If the battery goes Tango Uniform..see above.
4. @Clip4 answered this in good detail a week ago in the thread you made. Why are you asking again? Please explain.
 
Dana said:
Hand prop it. Only if you know what you're doing.
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Alternators won't wake up if the battery is totally dead. For one thing, there is insufficient voltage to turn the regulator on, so the alternator field gets nothing and the output is nothing.

Because of that, the Cessna P210 has a battery holder that holds a bunch of alkaline C-cells that are used, via a switch, to trigger the ACU and alternator field if the battery is dead.

1708988496140.png

The old generators had enough residual magnetism in their field pole shoes to generate enough to bootstrap themselves via the regulator.
Morgan3820 said:
In the end, you’ve damage the battery. So even if you can get it back up for a little while, it won’t last. I would just buy a new battery. And don’t leave the master on again. Voice of experience.
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Batteries that are completely discharged form lead sulfate on their plates thick enough to resist being converted back into lead, lead peroxide and sulfuric acid. Sometimes the sulfate falls off and shorts the bottoms of the plates together, and no amount of charge current will bring that battery back.


Starting the engine to recharge a dead battery could charge it much too fast and could boil the electrolyte and distort the plates. And it fills the engine crankcase with combustion byproducts, including water, that will then corrode the engine internally if it isn't flown for awhile. So, do the right thing: take the battery out and recharge it with a smart charger or constant-current charger set on a low current.
 
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swarajharne said:
Could a battery failure in flight lead to engine stalling/misbehaving on the Piper Arrow 2 aircraft? The circuit breakers that popped are 'Alternator' and 'Engine Group'. I am trying to understand if there is a correlation between CB popping-battery failure and engine stalling/misbehaving for this particular aircraft. Furthermore, could lose spark plug wires cause engine failure or stall? Please explain.
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Seriously?
Instructor never talked about systems? especially how magnetos work?
 
Dan Thomas said:
Alternators won't wake up if the battery is totally dead. For one thing, there is insufficient voltage to turn the regulator on, so the alternator field gets nothing and the output is nothing.



The old generators had enough residual magnetism in their field pole shoes to generate enough to bootstrap themselves via the regulator.
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True, but the generator's ability to start itself is not much help in an airplane with a totally dead battery. The master contactor is energized from battery voltage, so you would not be able to connect generator to battery and start charging.
 
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A student comes on here asking questions, which is what students are supposed to do. Rather than helping, which is what grown ups are supposed to do, some of you want to belittle him. Come on, man.
 
Ed Haywood said:
A student comes on here asking questions, which is what students are supposed to do. Rather than helping, which is what grown ups are supposed to do, some of you want to belittle him. Come on, man.
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In fairness, he's not even a student pilot. But an aeronautical engineer that would like to become a pilot. My rub was he created his own thread a week ago where all his questions were answered.

www.pilotsofamerica.com

Piper Arrow II Aircraft

What does it mean if the circuit breakers are popped for the 'Alternator' and 'Engine Group'? What is their function? Can engine failure in-flight be linked to these circuit breakers? Please explain.
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com
 
Racerx said:
In fairness, he's not even a student pilot. But an aeronautical engineer that would like to become a pilot. My rub was he created his own thread a week ago where all his questions were answered.

www.pilotsofamerica.com

Piper Arrow II Aircraft

What does it mean if the circuit breakers are popped for the 'Alternator' and 'Engine Group'? What is their function? Can engine failure in-flight be linked to these circuit breakers? Please explain.
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com
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He is an aerospace engineering student. A college kid. I understand double posting is a heinous offense ...
Screenshot_20240227-114842.png
 
flyingbrit said:
True, but the generator's ability to start itself is not much help in an airplane with a totally dead battery. The master contactor is energized from battery voltage, so you would not be able to connect generator to battery and start charging.
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That is true. The generator will energize the bus, though, but to get the battery charging one would have to short across the master contactor until the battery had the requisite voltage for the master switch to fire it.
 
Albany Tom said:
If you don't want to take out the battery, this would be a great time to get one of those 1000w Honda generators that you've probably always wanted anyway.
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That and a normal battery charger to connect to the battery. Cannot connect the Piper Plug to the 120V Generator, unless it's got a 12V output. I would have to check the manual, but can you charge the battery through the Piper Plug?
 
Dan Thomas said:
That is true. The generator will energize the bus, though, but to get the battery charging one would have to short across the master contactor until the battery had the requisite voltage for the master switch to fire it.
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Should only take a moment though, no? If the coil positive is connected to the battery side of the contactor, as soon as it sees the generator voltage it should pull in and stay there.

I have started my plane a number of times with one of those little lithium jumpstarter packs; I just clip it to ground and to the battery side of my master contactor (which is easily accessible on my plane). A lot easier than dealing with jumper cables from a car.
 
Dana said:
Should only take a moment though, no? If the coil positive is connected to the battery side of the contactor, as soon as it sees the generator voltage it should pull in and stay there
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If the battery is flat enough, it's internal resistance is so low that it will draw the generator voltage down so far that the master's coil might not stay closed. Might take a little time. Generators are already far less capable than alternators, often being only 25 or 35- amp units, and they generate nothing at all at idle. Typically 1200 engine RPM is where they will wake up.
 
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