Piper Arrow, apparently "priceless"

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by tawood, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    So in my search for a new plane, I've come across this Piper Arrow:

    https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...l=ARROW+IV&listing_id=2395462&s-type=aircraft

    The ad has no price listed (which typically irks me to begin with), but its a very clean arrow, and I'm willing to pay top dollar for a plane to get a clean example, so I called the dealer listing the plane and asked the lady that answered for the price of the plane....

    And she proceeds to talk for over 5 minutes, telling me all about this Arrow, and Arrows in general, without ever giving me the asking price. So after patiently waiting several minutes, I finally interrupt her and ask, "But what's the price?" And again, she goes into a spiel that would put a timeshare salesman to shame. But still, after listening for another minute, I'm forced to just hang up and bring to an end her question-dodging sales pitch, because I figure this much justifying must mean a really, REALLY, ridiculous price. Life's too short for this BS.

    Does this sort of tactic actually work? How many people's time must they waste to finally find their buyer?
     
  2. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    are you assuming the owner wants to sell?
     
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  3. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    Ha! Mind blown! I never thought of that angle!
     
  4. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    When I was looking I skipped the “call for price” planes.
    My view is if you’re not upfront about the price, what else are you hiding?
    If no one calls them, they’ll get the message.
     
  5. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    And I thank people like you for that. Got the Comanche for 30% under market value at the time because it said make offer and no price listed. Oh and the first annual was under $1000, so no surprises.
     
  6. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Maybe the wife said to the owner, "George, if you want peace (a piece?) in this house, you have to sell that damned airplane!" "Sure, honey, I'll list it in the morning."
     
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  7. tspear

    tspear En-Route

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    Yes the tactic works. If it did not dealers would stop.

    Depending on what is going on, when dealing with this tactic, I put the phone on speaker and mute it and do something else. When they finally stop talking, I say oh, hello, did you say something? Can you give me the price?
    If they start the speal again, I put them back on mute. I will usually give them one or two shots.

    The other technique I like is when they start talking and not answering the question, I go blah blah blah and keep repeating it until they stop. I then ask for the price, if the start another speal, I start blah blah blah again until they stop.

    Yes, I am rather immature. :)

    Tim

    Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
     
  8. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Cleared for Takeoff

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    And I want to thank you (at least I think it was you). You had posted something like this before. Until I read your previous post, I was of the mindset of not calling any ad that didn’t list a price. After I read your post, it made sense and I called on a Seneca that I was looking at, which ticked all my boxes but had “Call for price.” I think I got a very good deal.
     
  9. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    Which means if your broker uses this tactic they are likely not getting the best price.
     
  10. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Just like with most things, you don't get if you don't ask. The topic of "oh it must have a price or I won't call" comes up every once in a while. Well guess what happens when you do call? You might get a deal. Glad you scored one as well. And it was most likely me, I think you and I are the only ones on the board who ignored the "if it doesn't have a price don't buy" advice.
     
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  11. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I heard something to the effect of if you think you got a good deal you probably didn't, and if you are angry about the price you paid, you probably did get a good deal. who knows if that's true or not.
     
  12. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I think that quote is similar to what you always hear about merging seniority lists after an airline merger - you know the result was as fair as can be when *everyone* is p***ed!
     
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  13. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    I got my Mooney for 30% under market value too, and it listed a price, but that was back in 2013.
    I talk to a broker about this, he said it supposedly reduces calls from tire kickers, but he also felt it also reduces chances of making a sale. He said sometimes you don’t sell the plane being asked about , but you end up selling another plane in your inventory, maybe months later, because you’ve established a contact with a prospective buyer.
     
  14. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    A joke as old as time itself…
     
  15. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    That may be correct. I wasn't even planning on buying a plane, and made a stupid low offer just so I could get @SCCutler to quit hounding me about replacing the Cherokee and I could say "I made an offer and they didn't accept." Well, they accepted.
     
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  16. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Same here. I gave an offer which I thought was way too low and it was accepted. Turns out it was a one owner airplane whose owner turned 70 and found he couldn't be insured for a turbocharged twin for a reasonable amount of money. It helped that he was an Air Force/ANG flight doctor for 30+ years, and once he found out I was a former AF pilot, it was like he wanted me to have the airplane. It all worked out.
     
  17. TommyG

    TommyG Pattern Altitude

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    Well if you gave that place your email or phone number, expect a lot of cold calls from them. I spoke to them about 5 years ago about a plane, still get calls and emails from them. Even though I to,d them I am no longer looking.

    But someone I know bought a plane from them, said it was a great experience.
     
  18. Datadriver

    Datadriver Line Up and Wait

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    quick, someone else call, listen to her, then post the price;)
     
  19. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Make offer and call for price I view as the same, but different. I also think in a lot of cases, if you have to ask you probably can't afford it.

    I have little patience for most salesman. If I have a question it's because I've done my research and it's a very specific question. Most of the time I know the product better than the salesman selling said product. As was probably the case here. I bought an engine drive welder air compressor from Miller. I knew what I wanted. The only question I had was where the air line comes out. Not only could he not answer, but tried to sell me something several thousand dollars CHEAPER that wouldn't do everything I wanted. The other one is "well, let's look in the book". Been there and the answer isn't in the book. Got anyone here that can actually help?
     
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  20. nrpetersen

    nrpetersen Line Up and Wait

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    Maybe she's trying to find a barefoot pilgrim for her 40 year old Florida airplane? This market is crazy!
     
  21. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    $250,000.

    No chatting. Just "how much" and they answered.
     
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  22. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    For an Arrow? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  23. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    holy crapola
     
  24. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    $250K ?!

    But honestly, looking at the condition inside and out and with those avionics this thing is probably more capable than a "brand spanking new" 172 or new Arrow/Archer from Piper.. which likely has lower useful load and is undoubtedly going to be much slower. Aren't new slow basic fixed gear trainers in the $450K range?

    Plane prices make no sense.


    I'm torn on the "call for price" thing. I can understand both sides of it. Maybe the seller wants serious buyers only who give enough of a crap to actually call. Maybe their plane doesn't really compete with anything so it's hard to price out. Maybe they just want to gauge the response they get from the guy on the phone.

    Even so, airplane prices make absolutely no sense. It's all desire / romance / timing / luck driven.
     
  25. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It says call for price. We should ALL call for price…..
     
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  26. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Only, Piper isn't making the Arrow any more. When I bought the Cherokee a few months ago, the seller said he got a call from a guy who admitted he had looked at 27 different planes.

    https://www.piperforum.com/threads/getting-piper-to-build-some-new-arrows.21759/
     
  27. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Access to PiperForum.com is subscription based. Subscriptions are only $19.99/year or $3.99/month to gain access to this great community and unmatched library of Piper knowledge.

    You must be logged-in to do that.
     
  28. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Apologies. Short version. Someone wanted a new Arrow and was told by Piper they're not building Arrow's and would need an order of 15 for them to restart production.
     
  29. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Which sorts of proves the point that you can spend $450K to buy a "new" (but less capable) slow piece of crap (sorry Piper, I love you, but the "new" PA-28s don't fly like the 1970s birds do) or you can spend almost half and go faster.

    I am not saying $250K is a reasonable price. But if you want something "new" with glass, etc., then your options are limited, especially if you're looking for something "turnkey"
     
  30. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    They’ll think there’s a huge demand….will raise the price.
     
  31. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    $250k for a '79 arrow with 5000+ hours and a gear up in its past...no wonder they didn't want to say. I'd be embarrassed to say that too.
     
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  32. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    If that thing is worth $250k my Mooney is worth at least $125k.
     
  33. Jim K

    Jim K Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    :eek::rolleyes:
    I must've missed the part of the ad where there's three airplanes...

    Hell I'd part with the lance for that kind of money. Id even put the fancy avionics in it for you.
     
  34. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Line Up and Wait

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    I was guessing at least $200k but I wouldn't have guessed that high. Lol. It's clean, but come on, it's an Arrow.
     
  35. Coinneach

    Coinneach Pre-Flight

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    I'd guess they're just tired of answering the question, like I'm tired of endless txt msgs offering to buy my house.
     
  36. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Can talk to Jesse Saint and have a build assist RV10 with glass for about that price. Roomier and faster...and 50 years newer
     
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  37. charheep

    charheep Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    I never heard of him/them, but as someone that is looking hard at RV-10's, I just wanted to say thank you.
     
  38. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    He's active on the forum, why I brought him up.
     
  39. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I don't disagree at all. Or if you really wanted to spend $450K you can guy a lancair Mako for Cirrus performance and (new) C-172 prices

    But to "build" your own airplane, even if assisted, is a whole other ball game and commitment for people. That can be a tough sell

    The twin Velocity would be a sick ride.. or this guy in the other thread that built a twin RV.. if you're going to go experimental I think part of the fun is really building something unique
     
  40. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Line Up and Wait

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    Wait, what? Twin RV?


    Nevermind, found it. Saw it on Instagram the other day but didn't know it started as an RV.