Piper Archer Checkout

Re: Piper Arhcer Checkout

Pilawt said:
Actually it's ten seconds:

FAR 23.955(e) Multiple fuel tanks. For reciprocating engines that are supplied with fuel from more than one tank, if engine power loss becomes apparent due to fuel depletion from the tank selected, it must be possible after switching to any full tank, in level flight, to obtain 75 percent maximum continuous power on that engine in not more than -
(1) 10 seconds for naturally aspirated single engine airplanes;
(2) 20 seconds for turbocharged single engine airplanes, provided that 75 percent maximum continuous naturally aspirated power is regained within 10 seconds; or
(3) 20 seconds for multiengine airplanes.​
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CAR 3, which is the standard that a lot of airplanes were certified under, says basically the same thing:

"3.437(e) If an engine can be supplied with fuel
from more than one tank, it shall be possible to
regain the full power and fuel pressure of that
engine in not more than 10 seconds (for singleengine
airplanes) or 20 seconds (for multiengine
airplanes) after switching to any full tank after
engine malfunctioning becomes apparent due to
the depletion of the fuel supply in any tank from
which the engine can be fed. Compliance with
this provision shall be demonstrated in level
flight."
 
Rykymus said:
The sight picture really is different.
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azpilot said:
I have seen several people say this now. Can anyone elaborate on what you all mean by that?
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From the pilot's vantage point, the top of the instrument panel of the Archer seems lower than in the 172; and the nose of the 172 slopes downward more. Net result is that in coming from the 172, you may have the sense that the Archer is in a nose-up attitude while in fact it is level.
 
In a high-wing, you can look out the side window, straight down even, and see exactly how high you are above the ground. It makes it easy to develop a sense of when to flare. In the low wing, you are looking out at an angle forward and down. I always felt like I was about to smack the runway when in fact my gear was still 10 ft above the ground. Made for some hard landings in the beginning, as my flares were too high. That's why I made most of my early landings in the Warrior (coming from the 172) flying down the runway waiting for the plane to settle to the ground. When I went from the Warrior to the Archer, the transition was obviously a bit easier.
 
I think the Archer also sits a bit differently then the 172 giving you a different site window. Look at them sitting on the runway and all the Pipers appear to have a bit more incline to them, meaning the nose sits higher than the tail (taking tail draggers out of the equation). Also, the piper windscreen is much more sloped and the nose appears a little bit longer. This is noticeable when landing. Feels like you sit back more in the plane. You often can't really see the runway during a full flair.

As for stalls in Archers (and many Pipers), they are almost a non event. When you do stalls in the plane, it is almost like you have to convince the plane to do it. When it finally does you get a very mild buffet and it basically starts flying again right away. This is why people talk about being able to mush along in them with the Stall horns blaring. They also have virtually no tendency to brake suddenly in the stall.
 
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drotto said:
As for stalls in Archers (and many Pipers), they are almost a non event. When you do stalls in the plane, it is almost like you have to convince the plane to do it. When it finally does you get a very mild buffet and it basically starts flying again right away. This is why people talk about being able to mush along in them with the Stall horns blaring. They also have virtually no tendency to brake suddenly in the stall.
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Very early on I did one lesson in a warrior. It was my second lesson and just a short "discovery" flight. I do recall the flight instructor showed me a power off stall. I remember how gentle it seemed. He kept the yoke pulled all the way back. The stall horn was going off, and it felt like we were just slowly gliding down.
 
azpilot said:
Very early on I did one lesson in a warrior. It was my second lesson and just a short "discovery" flight. I do recall the flight instructor showed me a power off stall. I remember how gentle it seemed. He kept the yoke pulled all the way back. The stall horn was going off, and it felt like we were just slowly gliding down.
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My CFI has tried to put a Warrior into a spin on several occasions. He claims it is more or less impossible power off, and requires full power and full cross control to make it happen.
 
drotto said:
My CFI has tried to put a Warrior into a spin on several occasions. He claims it is more or less impossible power off, and requires full power and full cross control to make it happen.
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Your CFI is an idiot and/or reckless, given that the Warrior isn't approved for spins.
 
bradg33 said:
Your CFI is an idiot and/or reckless, given that the Warrior isn't approved for spins.
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Certainly reckless. Probably stupid if he didn't take precautions in case that spin was unrecoverable.

Not a guy I'd like to encounter while airborne.

I'd think 50 times about getting in an airplane with that guy again.
 
AZPilot: Thank you for this thread. I am a student pilot flying out of Deer Valley in 172s. The 172s are fine airplanes but I would also like to try out the Archer. Joining "Phoenix Flyers" was just too much for what I wanted to do.

Please let us know how things work out for you. I have book marked the Chandler Airport FBO. If you have a good experience with them I will head down there after getting my ticket and look at their Archers.
 
Re: Piper Arhcer Checkout

azpilot said:
I think that is just what they schedule. I hope you are right and that it doesn't take that long.
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Read the POH, know the speeds and basic emergency procedures and the actual ground portion should be 15 minutes or less before you start preflighting.

Don't open the manual prior to showing up, and hour on ground seems pretty reasonable.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
RobertSubnet said:
AZPilot: Thank you for this thread. I am a student pilot flying out of Deer Valley in 172s. The 172s are fine airplanes but I would also like to try out the Archer. Joining "Phoenix Flyers" was just too much for what I wanted to do.

Please let us know how things work out for you. I have book marked the Chandler Airport FBO. If you have a good experience with them I will head down there after getting my ticket and look at their Archers.
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I'm glad you've enjoyed it! The checkout is tomorrow AM. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

I have been thinking very hard about joining Phoenix flyers too. Flying the Archers at CAS will be a good step in that direction.

brcase said:
Read the POH, know the speeds and basic emergency procedures and the actual ground portion should be 15 minutes or less before you start preflighting.

Don't open the manual prior to showing up, and hour on ground seems pretty reasonable.
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If I had a POH, I would read it. I don't know the year or revision of the Archer. Oh well. Perhaps ground will take a little longer.
 
azpilot said:
I'm glad you've enjoyed it! The checkout is tomorrow AM. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

I have been thinking very hard about joining Phoenix flyers too. Flying the Archers at CAS will be a good step in that direction.



If I had a POH, I would read it. I don't know the year or revision of the Archer. Oh well. Perhaps ground will take a little longer.
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Unlike Cessnas, PA28 POHs are not year specific.

Read whatever you can find online that says "Archer" on the front, and you'll be almost all the way there.
 
I am not sure if the Archer is the same as the Dakota on the brakes, but unlike a C172, the Piper (at least the Dakota) has a bar going across the space above the rudder pedals. If your foot is too high, you might end up pushing on this unmoveable bar instead of the top of the pedal. Keep track of where your feet are.
 
DesertNomad said:
I am not sure if the Archer is the same as the Dakota on the brakes, but unlike a C172, the Piper (at least the Dakota) has a bar going across the space above the rudder pedals. If your foot is too high, you might end up pushing on this unmoveable bar instead of the top of the pedal. Keep track of where your feet are.
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Of all times this could happen, it did on my checkride! On my short-field landing; caused me to lurch to the left before I got her straightened out. Fortunately the DPE didn't completely freak out.
 
DesertNomad said:
I am not sure if the Archer is the same as the Dakota on the brakes, but unlike a C172, the Piper (at least the Dakota) has a bar going across the space above the rudder pedals. If your foot is too high, you might end up pushing on this unmoveable bar instead of the top of the pedal. Keep track of where your feet are.
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Yes, Archers have that, too.

You'll feel it on the taxi out. Taxi slowly.
 
hhmmff, in all my archer time I never noticed that bar. I'll take a look next time.
 
The Pa28 line is about the easiest thing out there to fly. Follow the book numbers on landing, and remember to switch tanks. that's about it. If you can fly a 172, you should have no issues in a Cherokee/Archer
 
eman1200 said:
hhmmff, in all my archer time I never noticed that bar. I'll take a look next time.
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Put the arches of your feet or your heels on the brakes, instead of your toes. Brakes won't be happy.

You can't put your feet too high on the brakes in a 172, but you can in a PA28.
 
azpilot said:
If I had a POH, I would read it. I don't know the year or revision of the Archer. Oh well. Perhaps ground will take a little longer.
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Now you do:

http://www.aceflyingclub.com/manuals/piper-PA-28-181-POH.pdf

Some discussion about switching tanks.

I start on one tank, and switch prior to the run-up. The run-up uses enough fuel that if there is an issue on that side of the fuel system, it will manifest itself prior to takeoff. I then leave it on that tank for takeoff.

Also, when I switch tanks, I keep my hand on the selector, watch the fuel pressure gauge, and count to 5 before I remove it and shut the electric pump off. This way if there's an issue or a drop in fuel pressure I can quick switch it back.

I think you'll find the yoke to be much heavier in the pitch axis than the 172. Whereas the 172 doesn't require much backpressure, I have to pull a little harder on the yoke of the Archer to get it to fly off. Slightly heavier in roll as well.

The airplane is easier to land, in my opinion, than the 172. Sight picture is different but you will pick it up after a few landings. Visibility is miles better if you are willing to give up a the view straight down to the ground. I did my PPL training in the 172 and checked out an Archer not too long after.. and liked it so much I bought one. Haven't flown a high wing airplane since:D
 
MAKG1 said:
Put the arches of your feet or your heels on the brakes, instead of your toes. Brakes won't be happy.....
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Ah, well that would be why I never noticed it.....can't imagine why id have my heels up that high.
 
I started my training in 172s and just by chance, finished in a Cherokee 140 then an Archer. I've come to prefer the low wing visibility and I really enjoy flying the Archer. I've always downloaded the POH for whatever plane I'm flying and I save it to my documents in foreflight. If I recall correctly, Piper gives a range of aircraft serial numbers which the POH applies to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I just landed half an hour ago.

What downward visibility issue? Just bank a little steeper:)
 
Visibility is not bad, but it's next to impossible to take a photo without a wingtip or prop in it, especially from the back seat. Cessna back seat photos are fine as long as you aren't zoomed all the way out (then, it's hard to avoid the wing strut and wheel at the same time).
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Now you do:

http://www.aceflyingclub.com/manuals/piper-PA-28-181-POH.pdf

Some discussion about switching tanks.

I start on one tank, and switch prior to the run-up. The run-up uses enough fuel that if there is an issue on that side of the fuel system, it will manifest itself prior to takeoff. I then leave it on that tank for takeoff.

Also, when I switch tanks, I keep my hand on the selector, watch the fuel pressure gauge, and count to 5 before I remove it and shut the electric pump off. This way if there's an issue or a drop in fuel pressure I can quick switch it back.

I think you'll find the yoke to be much heavier in the pitch axis than the 172. Whereas the 172 doesn't require much backpressure, I have to pull a little harder on the yoke of the Archer to get it to fly off. Slightly heavier in roll as well.

The airplane is easier to land, in my opinion, than the 172. Sight picture is different but you will pick it up after a few landings. Visibility is miles better if you are willing to give up a the view straight down to the ground. I did my PPL training in the 172 and checked out an Archer not too long after.. and liked it so much I bought one. Haven't flown a high wing airplane since:D
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Thanks.....you posted pretty much all of what I was thinking about posting.


I'll add that the IGE of the PA28s is something you will have to master. And as soon as my wheels chirp, I dump ALL flaps, then lightly brake with back pressure and increase back pressure as I slow.

The PA 28s want to fly and on roll out, it's very easy to jump them back in the air.
 
To add, I have practiced with varying brake pressure and you can stand on them pretty hard in the Archer, whereas the same pressure in a 172 causes screeching. Not that I'd know about screeching the tires in a 172:p

I am breaking in the new engine and I have to fly the approach at as high of an RPM as possible and can't pull to idle over the numbers to prevent shock cooling. I'm coming in at 80 knots. It floats a LONG ways, but touchdown sure is soft!

65 works pretty well. If I'm really heavy or if the wind is moving around a lot, I'll up it to 70. I'm still learning but I'd bet solo with half tanks I could bring it down to 60 no problem.

I don't have an issue with getting back airborne, but I keep pulling on the yoke till the tires chirp. By that time, it's almost pulled all the way back.

If I do it right anyways. Which isn't always:lol:
 
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