Pilots using the iPad in the cockpit

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by cschneider, Nov 25, 2010.

  1. cschneider

    cschneider Filing Flight Plan

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    Last edited: Nov 26, 2010
  2. Sticky1

    Sticky1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    OK, so I determined that charlie wants to sell some kneepads......
     
  3. cschneider

    cschneider Filing Flight Plan

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    Actually, I am advocating the use of electronic charts vs paper charts in the cockpit used in a secure way. There are many ways to accomplish that. The iPad is one way that works really well.

    I am also advocating securing what ever device that is used for electronic charts. There are several products on the market to do this as well. Having personally experienced what happens when it is left unsecured. It was not pleasant.

    I can also tell you that I speak to many pilots who don't know why they would want to use electronic charts until I have flown with them. Most switch the next day. They believe it to reduce workload and improve situational awareness.

    So, like most new things, advocacy and education are important. I can tell you also that as a result of the news story, several people contacted me to see how they can also learn to fly. So sharing this story seems to be a good thing.
     
  4. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    The problem with iPad is that you're on mercy of Apple. Most Android tablets are no better if they are carrier-sponsored. Now if anyone managed to work something out that used Littl (folded over), HP Slate 500, or rumored Samsung Galaxy Tab (an Android, but an open one, in WiFi-only guise at least), then I am listening. But relying on a product that Apple or Verizon can remotely disable at any moment sounds like a bad policy to me.

    That said, I know an IFR pilot who used Kindle for approach plates for years now. It is all about your risk tolerance.
     
  5. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    How many of you guys are going to come in here and tell us about this product?!
     
  6. timrj

    timrj Pre-Flight

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    Wow - just like the apple products - they seem over priced.
     
  7. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Or you can get a windows mobile PC, secure it to the panel, and then put in an 8" touch screen - also mounted to the panel.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. gkainz

    gkainz Final Approach

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    and had you posted that photo from a mac running iPhoto, it would have auto-resized :)
     
  9. dennyleeb

    dennyleeb Line Up and Wait

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    I could not tell if the video was showing how bad or good it was. The clipboard needs built into the case so it does not slide off.
     
  10. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    Thanks a lot for sharing. The exact setup is too weird for me to consider, and in any case is not applicable to a renter, but I never heard about viliv before. I'm not going to get an S5, but X70 sounds like just the ticket.
    -- Pete
     
  11. Sticky1

    Sticky1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I recently picked up an Ipad and forflight. I like it, no more charts
     
  12. AdamZ

    AdamZ Administrator Management Council Member

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    Besides the approach plate function does the iPad also act as a GPS replacing a handheld? Can you get Wx on it?
     
  13. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Yes, the iPad can serve as a GPS. The 3G models have a built-in GPS reciever.

    If you have the 3G function, a service plan, and are in range of cell towers, you can get weather. I wouldn't count on that feature unless you were gonna stay low over suburban areas.
     
  14. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    Kind of, and it depends on what you mean by "on it." ;)

    Weather relies on 3G reception. You can get any Internet weather product you want in reception, and Foreflight has several weather overlays available. But it ain't XM weather.

    The GPS function is not suited to real time flying as much as, say, the track up view on a Garmin.

    I wouldn't consider it a replacement for an aviation handheld GPS.

    Check out the Foreflight website for an idea of the iPad functionality for aviation. It is outstanding but apples and oranges to a 496.
     
  15. CollinLeon

    CollinLeon Pre-takeoff checklist

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  16. Sticky1

    Sticky1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The att service sucks. I tried it today.......150 miles at 5500ft and 150 miles at 3500 ft, upstate NY to KMVY
     
  17. Larryo

    Larryo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    FWIW,

    I'm a die hard IPad user and have been paperless for ~6 years or better. My first PC solution (Motion) was a PITA, but worked for the most part but not without a lot of rebooting, reloading and futzing.

    The IPad solves the problem without the hassle. Works well and does the job.

    However, my only goal with it is a paperless cockpit. I don't need the GPS, weather, and not interested in a moving map. Just charts, plates, AFD, and some manuals.

    Works great.
     
  18. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    What do you use to write clearances? LiveSketch or something?
    -- Pete
     
  19. Sticky1

    Sticky1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I flew yesterday with the ipad and foreflight. ONLY GOOD FOR CHARTS
     
  20. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    Want to explain that further?
     
  21. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    My guess would be when it loses 3G signal, and if the GPS signal hiccups, you're screwed.
     
  22. jason

    jason Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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  23. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    iBazinga!
    AT&T is not a service that is designed for airborne use. It is terrestrial optimized. You were trying to use it for purposes not intended for. To say it "sucks" is unfair.
     
  24. CollinLeon

    CollinLeon Pre-takeoff checklist

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    All of the current digital cell services are primarily surface optimized. The old analog services were able to be used in the air, but they haven't been supported in awhile from what I've heard. It was also used by alarm companies, so people had to change out their fire and entry alarms to newer models when the government allowed this system to go away. The original GM OnStar system used it, so the owners of those cars probably got screwed over when GM discontinued it.
     
  25. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    The government did not "allow it to go away." Telecom equipment vendors and most of the large tier operators actively pushed to have the 800 MHz analog requirement removed from the licensing regulations. The typical NPRM process occurred. GM BTW was pushing for digital OnStar regardless of the analog requirement. They had services that they wanted to offer that just did not work on the analog systems.

    Analog itself was never optimized for service in the air but it did work better than the digital systems. There was and is still one airborne network provider that has a waiver and systems designed to cover voice and data while airborne.
     
  26. CollinLeon

    CollinLeon Pre-takeoff checklist

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    A matter of semantics... By no longer requiring it, that pretty much is equivalent to allowing it to go away... I used to have an analog bag phone that I would use while flying to call the person I was meeting to pick me up at the airport. I could call them at 10,000 ft without a problem (other than the engine noise). My usual technique was to just reduce the throttle to idle and make the call. Nothing like the incentive of watching your altimeter unwind to give you motivation to make the call short...

    Regardless of GM's desires for digital services, it still means that they left the people with analog OnStar systems in a bind.

    Analog also covered more of the country than the digital systems do. The digital systems are shorter range and are primarily located near metropolitan areas and along highways. Having said that, there was one particular airport that I infrequently flew to that was in a dead zone that did not have analog service. Actually, I could get a signal in the air, but not on the ground.
     
  27. Noah Werka

    Noah Werka Pre-takeoff checklist

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  28. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    Well that and the violation of federal regulations. You are lucky the FCC police did not come and arrest you ;)

    But that was GM's decision all by themselves, don't blame the government for GM's lousy plan to handle legacy issues.


    Initially. But that is no longer true. I am pretty sure it stopped being true a decade ago. Companies like Verizon only had one analog channel per cell site towards the end, even in rural areas. Phones had stopped being dual mode a long time ago. Even before the rule changed. The only people who were using analog were grandma and grandpa who had a bag phone in the truck for emergencies and some rural places that were having trouble finding equipment.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  29. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    ...and all the other cached data besides charts.
     
  30. CollinLeon

    CollinLeon Pre-takeoff checklist

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    And pilots who often landed at rural airports that were not near any major highways and thus no in a digital cell phone reception area. With a digital cell phone, I'm lucky to be able to make a cell phone call at 500 ft. With an analog cell phone, I was able to make one at 10,000 ft over a very rural part of north central Louisiana. With digital phones, I've been at pattern altitude, basically right over a cell phone tower and not been able to get a cell phone signal. Ended up getting a signal on short final, maybe 1/4 mile from the end of the runway...
     
  31. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    It seems obvious that anthennas designed to cover ground would not transmit/receive well from sets outside of their lobes. So yeah, cry me a river. However, this reminded me about something... Is Globalstar approved for use in flight, onboard a GA aircraft? Those accounts are pretty cheap, any Baron driver ought to be able to afford one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  32. DutchessFlier

    DutchessFlier Line Up and Wait

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    Ask me how I know you really like it alot!!!!

    In fact, I was thinking about the base model ipad with just the foreflight charts and plates, and not worry about the AT&T or Verizon subscriptions, since I have all I need on the Aera510...

    Hey thanks again for the flight to MVY Sunday..was a hoot!
     
  33. Sticky1

    Sticky1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hey Flier,

    Yep, it's good for the charts and initial flight info.

    MVY was great.....!!
     
  34. elmetal

    elmetal Pre-takeoff checklist

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    wait a minute... how do you get approach plates (current) on a kindle??????
     
  35. elmetal

    elmetal Pre-takeoff checklist

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    so you can get sectionals, enroute, plates,and afd on the ipad????

    I wasn't a fan but Im starting to be one..... how much is the subscription online vs paper?
     
  36. magicj

    magicj Pre-Flight

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    The iPad app ForeFlight is $75/year. Gives you all that and more. :wink2:
     
  37. elmetal

    elmetal Pre-takeoff checklist

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    is it legal or do I still need the paper versions current in the plane?
     
  38. tonycondon

    tonycondon Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)

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    did you need current paper versions in the plane before?
     
  39. elmetal

    elmetal Pre-takeoff checklist

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    touche
     
  40. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    http://www.foreflight.com/ipad