Pilotless airplane....yeah no pilot

...it was Putin...visiting Trump...left no tracks!!!


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Can't help but notice his flight would have taken him directly over Michipicoten Island...the largest uninhabited island in the Great Lakes. If there is any evidence that he could be alive (like it is determined that he brought a 'chute), I'd start looking there first.
 
News articles say the plane was found by the Joint Rescue Co-ordination Center but there is nothing on why they were looking. Flight Plan filed?? Owner reported it missing?? Canada's version of NORAD detecting an unidentified plane crossing the border?? No info yet on the "crash" itself. Did it lawn dart in?? Make what looked like a controlled off airport landing?? It does say it is connected to a missing persons investigation of a Michigan graduate student and the Plane is owned by the University of Michigan.
 
I think I saw this in an old Columbo episode. The one with Johnny Cash called "Swan Song." He bailed out and left the airplane to crash (alas it had his wife on board). Not too bad of a treatment of GA. Columbo is shown getting out a Navion during the show. The only real amusing part was that the story relies on him turning off the cabin heat and I guess they decided the pull-knob in the Cessna wouldn't be clear to the viewers, so they relabeled some rocker switch on the panel instead.
 
The guy was hoping the plane would disappear into the lake and his wife could claim the Life Insurance. Or he is trying to escape his life and wanted to put a PERIOD on the current one...
 
How the hell can you get the doors of a 172 open enough in flight to bail out?

Sounds to me like he ran out of fuel, landed out, and fresh snow obscured the tracks.
 
MAKG1 said:
How the hell can you get the doors of a 172 open enough in flight to bail out?

Sounds to me like he ran out of fuel, landed out, and fresh snow obscured the tracks.
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This is a local story here, and there seems to be a lot of background being left out, but basically a "despondent" student went missing, then was last seen renting this plane. Plane was found out of gas, with the autopilot still in the "on" position, and no tracks leading away from crash. That area where it crashed is a Lake Superior snow belt, and still had several feet of snow on the ground at the time of the crash.
 
tawood said:
This is a local story here, and there seems to be a lot of background being left out, but basically a "despondent" student went missing, then was last seen renting this plane. Plane was found out of gas, with the autopilot still in the "on" position, and no tracks leading away from crash. That area where it crashed is a Lake Superior snow belt, and still had several feet of snow on the ground at the time of the crash.
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How do they know the autopilot was on? With the KAP140 I've used, I don't think there would be any way to tell after a crash.
 
As long as you got there before the battery went dead, why not.
 
flyingron said:
As long as you got there before the battery went dead, why not.
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I guess. It just seems incredible to me that the electrical system and autopilot panel would have survived the crash, and someone responding was either able to tell that the autopilot was on or took a picture of the panel within the 30-40 minutes it would have taken for the battery to die. Also I think most autopilots would have kicked off when the engine quit and the plane couldn't hold altitude.
 
MassPilot said:
I guess. It just seems incredible to me that the electrical system and autopilot panel would have survived the crash, and someone responding was either able to tell that the autopilot was on or took a picture of the panel within the 30-40 minutes it would have taken for the battery to die. Also I think most autopilots would have kicked off when the engine quit and the plane couldn't hold altitude.
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I can imagine two scenarios:

1. single axis autopilot with good trim, trimmed for slow cruise or high altitude.
2. dual axis autopilot in "pitch" mode, set for fast cruise.

Both will settle into a near best glide descent when the engine quits, and the AP would be happy with it. The crash would obviously be uncontrolled, but shouldn't be at too great a descent rate. I'd expect an airplane in one piece, at least.

Alt hold will not work. It will either kick off or cause a stall. Most likely the former.
 
The old story of a guy handpropping his J3. It gets away from him. Takes off. Flies till out of gas. Found upright and ok in a farmers field. Personally, I don't believe it. But, truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to be believable.
 
Find the pilot,he is the only one that knows what happened.
 
How the hell can you get the doors of a 172 open enough in flight to bail out?
Sounds to me like he ran out of fuel, landed out, and fresh snow obscured the tracks.

I've jumped both Aeronca Champs and C-170 with the doors on.
 
pmanton said:
How the hell can you get the doors of a 172 open enough in flight to bail out?
Sounds to me like he ran out of fuel, landed out, and fresh snow obscured the tracks.

I've jumped both Aeronca Champs and C-170 with the doors on.
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I would think a slip would help take some pressure off the door. Was this done when you did it?
 
This is the last track of the incident plane picked up by ADS-B. The plane crashed about 4 hours later which should have been within the range of the 172. We cannot say for certain this is a partial track of the accident flight but it is a possibility.
 

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I think you can get the doors open on the 172. Just fly very slowly. Look at the initial ground speeds in Don's post. 55 knots or so. Picked up some better TAS and likely tailwinds as it climbed after the fat guy got out.
 
I'm the door on jumper--

1st my memory might be a hazy since the jumps took place on the 50's.In case of Champ I was a 16 year old solo student with a war surplus seat pack and a big mouth. This got me my first jump from an Aeronca Champ. over Rosamond Dry Lake in California.The 2nd Champ jump was also over SoCal. I went from the back seat and just backed out the door. The 170 was from the right front seat and I don't remember how I departed. As an aside, ther jump was over the Simi Valley and I asked a pal to pick me up and give me a lift back. My buddy brought his girl friend along. She was a 10+ named Winona who is now my wife. :) Paul - himself013.jpg Paul - himself037.jpg
 
flyingron said:
I think you can get the doors open on the 172. Just fly very slowly. Look at the initial ground speeds in Don's post. 55 knots or so. Picked up some better TAS and likely tailwinds as it climbed after the fat guy got out.
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You can't maintain 55 knots airspeed in a 172 hands off, at least not clean. It will naturally trim to 65 or faster.

Slower ground speed could rather easily be due to winds.

Hands off the yoke, shoving one door open enough for a person to get out isn't likely to maintain straight flight. There is only so much roll you can counter before the autopilot kicks off.

And that assumes that "track" has any relation to the flight at hand.

I'm not buying this. There is a much more mundane answer.
 
Well he could have still pitched it down to a slower speed even if it was trimmed faster. Once he was out it would have worked its way up to the higher speed.

Who said anyhing about an autopilot? Once he's out and the door is back in trail the plane will fly straight (barring misrigging) and the airspeed and pitch attitude will settle down eventually.
 
flyingron said:
Well he could have still pitched it down to a slower speed even if it was trimmed faster. Once he was out it would have worked its way up to the higher speed.

Who said anyhing about an autopilot? Once he's out and the door is back in trail the plane will fly straight (barring misrigging) and the airspeed and pitch attitude will settle down eventually.
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The authorities claim that the autopilot was found engaged. I still find it curious that the electrical system and autopilot panel survived the crash, the autopilot didn't kick off, and the responders checked for it or took a picture of the panel before the battery died.
 
MAKG1 said:
How do you hold a slip and jump out at the same time?
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Can't say I've tried it in a 172, but at approach speeds in a 152 you can push the door open to the stop without much effort. My insane flight instructor used to open his door like that in the pattern until I rolled it to the right and slammed left rudder on him.
 
My DPE (an old guy that has flown just about everything, very interesting guy to listen to.) told me how he had to bail out of a brand new 182 at night in IMC over mountainous terrain in 1960 when the prop departed the plane.

The landing tore him up and put him in the hospital for a month.

Funny part was when he talked about what he learned about bailing out of a small plane. Trim nose down before departing. He said the 182 circled back on him twice before it hit the trees.

I have no idea why he was wearing a 'chute to deliver a brand new plane.
 
MassPilot said:
I guess. It just seems incredible to me that the electrical system and autopilot panel would have survived the crash, and someone responding was either able to tell that the autopilot was on or took a picture of the panel within the 30-40 minutes it would have taken for the battery to die. Also I think most autopilots would have kicked off when the engine quit and the plane couldn't hold altitude.
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I obviously have no idea what kind of autopilot was in there, but if it happened to be a Tactair unit like in my C182, you pull a knob to turn it on. I doubt the knob would come out to the "on" position without a human pulling it even in a crash, though it is possible. Also, if the master knob is engaged, then the heading lock knob on the DG would also be engaged. It's a vacuum operated 3 axis autopilot.
 
OkieFlyer said:
I obviously have no idea what kind of autopilot was in there, but if it happened to be a Tactair unit like in my C182, you pull a knob to turn it on. I doubt the knob would come out to the "on" position without a human pulling it even in a crash, though it is possible. It's a vacuum operated 3 axis autopilot.
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Interesting. Is that what you might call an analog autopilot?

I'm guessing the accident plane was one of these 172's:
https://michiganflyers.org/aircraft/
 
MassPilot said:
Interesting. Is that what you might call an analog autopilot?

I'm guessing the accident plane was one of these 172's:
https://michiganflyers.org/aircraft/
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I reckon you could call it that. No electronics at all.

If it was one of those planes, then I seriously doubt it would have had a Tactair autopilot. I'm not sure they survived the 60s.
 
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