Pilotage on the commercial test question

2nd505th

2nd505th

Pre-takeoff checklist
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2nd505th
For the commercial test for skill area CA.VI.A.S3 - S5. I wanted to know from anyone who has taken the commercial test what their experience was in this area. Were you expected to do this from a paper chart, with electrical systems loss of power? Something done mid flight at random? Where you have to start computing in flight because you’re supposedly lost? I originally got my pilots license back in 1983 so of course we had to do everything by pencil and chart but I didn’t fly for 29 years got back into it and of course foreflight makes everything super easy so some of my pilotage skills may have degraded. Not an excuse for being weak in this area, but just trying to get a feel of what might be expected.
 
Since it specifies “precomputed,” it will most likely be that you’ll take off and head out on your planned cross country leg until the examiner is satisfied that you’re proficient, at which time you’ll break off and start doing air work.

Generally, you’ll use whatever charts you would normally use, possibly with the airplane’s moving map display dimmed and/or own ship position on electronic charts disabled.
 
Refresh youself as to the pilotage worksheet- waypoints, locating oneself via dual VOR bearings (if you've got on in your AC)....that ought do it...he's not going to spend a lot of time on this one.
 
I’d ask the examiner beforehand. It’s not an unreasonable question.
 
I tell applicants that "Skills" section of the ACS is how to fail a task. When you fail one for the Pilotage navigation the examiner will write down one of these as "Failed to"
Skills: The applicant exhibits the skill to:
CA.VI.D.S1 Use an appropriate method to determine position.
CA.VI.D.S2 Maintain an appropriate heading and climb as necessary.
CA.VI.D.S3 Identify prominent landmarks.
CA.VI.D.S4 Use navigation systems/facilities or contact an ATC facility for assistance.
CA.VI.D.S5 Select an appropriate course of action.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Commercial checkride, 12 years ago. Ten minutes or so after takeoff, on the first leg of the planned cross country, approaching my first checkpoint.
Me: “There’s the checkpoint - Scotts Valley.”
DPE: “Are you sure that’s the checkpoint?”
Me: “Yeah, right there at the Granite Creek Road interchange with Highway 17 is Baymont School, and that’s my mom’s house five blocks to the right.”
DPE: “Alright, let’s do the maneuvers.”
 
FYI, from what I have read, you can use a tablet with an EFB app, but you have to turn off Own Ship, so you lose the little airplane showing where you are.
 
Just wanted to say thank you for all the very thoughtful and helpful comments to my question. Thanks to all who contributed.
 
I did my commercial ride about a month ago. Pilotage was the first thing once we were airborne - proceed on course for the first leg of the XC trip he had me plan, using only pilotage/dead reckoning. We did about 20-ish miles (just before we would have had to call Approach for the class C airspace we were heading toward) and then he had me divert to a particular nearby airport (still using pilotage). He had me turn off ownship in Foreflight before we started (I could turn it back on after this part) so I could use it for charts but not have the position reference, and kept the GTN650 on the menu screen, not a nav or map mode.
 
pgengler said:
I did my commercial ride about a month ago. Pilotage was the first thing once we were airborne - proceed on course for the first leg of the XC trip he had me plan, using only pilotage/dead reckoning. We did about 20-ish miles (just before we would have had to call Approach for the class C airspace we were heading toward) and then he had me divert to a particular nearby airport (still using pilotage). He had me turn off ownship in Foreflight before we started (I could turn it back on after this part) so I could use it for charts but not have the position reference, and kept the GTN650 on the menu screen, not a nav or map mode.
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Thank you Sir. May I also ask for the XC were you presented the XC requirements anytime before sitting with the DPE or gained knowledge and had to plan during the test?
 
2nd505th said:
Thank you Sir. May I also ask for the XC were you presented the XC requirements anytime before sitting with the DPE or gained knowledge and had to plan during the test?
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I got the requirements a few days ahead of the checkride. The assignment was given as a scenario: "I've hired you to fly my wife and I to <city> and we want to arrive at our hotel at 5pm"; the restriction about not using GPS or EFB "ownship" was stated as part of the assignment. The planned flight was used as part of the oral, as well - to talk about W&B, weather en-route, etc.
 
The DPE gave me the flight planning assignment a couple days in advance. Fly two passengers from Hayward, CA to South Lake Tahoe, and gave the passenger and baggage weights.

Seems like an easy enough straight shot, but it’s s good test question. The flight includes busy Class B and C, terrain going from dense urban to mountains with no good options if you’re not flying over highways (hint), sea level to an airport at 6,000-some MSL. Mild, stable coastal climate to mountain weather, plus it was summer which really brings in density altitude.

During the oral, we went over the flight planning assignment. Then he said that they brought a third passenger, so I had to re-plan for W&B. He also gave me the METARs and TAFs. Hint: Know the abbreviations, improbable as it would be to see +TSRA and FZRA for the Bay Area (more like impossible in the summer, but necessary for a valid test). I hoped he’d call it good when I said this one’s easy - we’re not even leaving the house to go to the airport. But nope, after going over those weather reports, he brought out a new set of METAR and TAFs and the test continued.
 
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