Pilot, wife use iPads to safely crash-land without landing gear

Agreed, although the article is badly worded. No, they used the Ipad to navigate back to the airport during an electrical failure, not to land the plane.
 
Why didn't they just use an application like MS paint to draw on cartoon landing gear with their I pads as well ?
 
over50 said:
Just saw this story and somehow it just doesn't sit right with me.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/02...ds-to-safely-crash-land-without-landing-gear/

Why didn't they extend the gear manually? Why did they need an iPad to save the day? Probably the media failing to get the correct story out once again.
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Navigating using an Ipad is nothing exceptional any more. But I too am wondering why they didn't have time during that 80 miles home to manually extend the gear? Of course, I am assuming that their Piper has a manual crank.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Why didn't they just use an application like MS paint to draw on cartoon landing gear with their I pads as well ?
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I don't think Microsoft Paint will run on an apple product.
Otherwise, probably would have worked.
 
JOhnH said:
Of course, I am assuming that their Piper has a manual crank.
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No. It's a dirt simple extension procedure. Pop circuit breaker, open up the floor hatch, pull on the release lever, push landing gear lever between seats forward to lock into place.
 
Possibly, heat of the battle, they just forgot the gear.
 
If you land with an electrical failure you have a big headache to fix the plane. If you land with gear up the insurance company declares your plane totalled and you get a check. A small conspiracy to not hear "I'll never fly with you again in this piece of crap airplane of yours." Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
 
EdFred said:
No. It's a dirt simple extension procedure. Pop circuit breaker, open up the floor hatch, pull on the release lever, push landing gear lever between seats forward to lock into place.
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It is dirt simple as long as there isn't something stuck in the gear keeping it from free-falling.

The old video of the arrow with a single wheel stuck and the guy on the truck pulling it down would be an example of such a failure.

However, if electrical failure was the only thing wrong with the airplane....I suspect the gear should have come down just fine with the emergency extension...
 
EdFred said:
No. It's a dirt simple extension procedure. Pop circuit breaker, open up the floor hatch, pull on the release lever, push landing gear lever between seats forward to lock into place.
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And you slow to 100mph or less. I can recall someone (mighta been Tony Scarpelli) flying around for 45 minutes not able to extend the gear manually until another Comanche guy got on the freq asked him his airspeed...
 
I am told the guy had purchased the airplane within a couple of days. I'm also told that he thought the gear was down from the emergency release but couldn't confirm it locked because no lights or horn. I think a pre-buy mechanic may have some 'splanin' to do. It was a nice Commanche it looks like.

I should have more info later today.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I am told the guy had purchased the airplane within a couple of days. I'm also told that he thought the gear was down from the emergency release but couldn't confirm it locked because no lights or horn. I think a pre-buy mechanic may have some 'splanin' to do. It was a nice Commanche it looks like.

I should have more info later today.
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There's a big lever that's still visible unless the pilot is blind. And if the pilot is blind, all ya gotta do is feel for it.
 
All that was missing from the article was Gene Kranz pacing around muttering, "Failure is not an option!"

cgrab said:
A small conspiracy to not hear "I'll never fly with you again in this piece of crap airplane of yours." Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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How ironic that the denouement of this little drama took place at Rapid City ... KRAP.
 
Copied from another forum I follow.

"This plane just came out of an annual before being bought by one of the pilots on board. When they went to pick it up on Friday they were informed "Oh by the way, the person doing the emergency extension let the gear fall and they had to remove some panels to get it hooked up again". RED FLAG. They were asked, did you check it afterward? Answer, "UH, YA". Probably did not.
After departure they did not get a gear up light and the gear motor appeared to keep running and the breaker blew and would not stay reset. We don't know if this led to the demise of the charging system or not. As they went on the battery voltage continued to go down. Finally they had no lights, comm or nav. Very challenging at 11k and pitch black every where. As they got near Rapid City they tried to put the gear down manually. They followed the procedure to a T. It would only go down part way, they thought they were going to break the lever off.
I do know the instructor/Pilot who was on board. In fact I had gone over the emergency procedure with him before they went to pick up the plane. We are friends. When he got back yesterday he came over and explained what he did. We sat in my plane and verified he did all the correct steps.
My best guess is that the spring that is attached to the gear motor and the cockpit floor was missing or not attached. That might explain the shops initial problem and why they could only get partial extension. He took a picture of my spring attachment and is trying to get a picture of the one in Rapid City to verify if that was the problem."

If indeed that spring was missing, it would allow the gear transmission to drop down and bind up the jack screw not allowing full extension. This little spring has offten been found missing or not reattached after maintenace was performed.

I am surprised they would continue a flight just out of maintenance, with an obvious issue.
 
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If only I'd had an iPad when the gear in my Arrow got jammed up. As it was, I only had one "runaway" to choose from at my home airport so couldn't even land on a less frequently used one :D
 
I had an exciting time in the Turbo Arrow once. I started climbing out after takeoff, and noticed my airspeed was going to hell. My first thought was an engine problem, but everything looked normal. I moved on to the gear, tried cycling it, and nada. Nothing. Zippo. I figured there was either some sort of electrical problem or a hydraulic problem, but I couldn't get it to raise or lower so it was probably partially up (no greens.) I was already heading back to the field so I called in for a low flyby so they could check the gear. I got the gear down via the dump valve by the time I was on final so I just landed it. Sure enough, one of the hydraulic lines in the wing busted.
 
cgrab said:
If you land with an electrical failure you have a big headache to fix the plane. If you land with gear up the insurance company declares your plane totalled and you get a check. A small conspiracy to not hear "I'll never fly with you again in this piece of crap airplane of yours." Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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That would be excercizing the "HENNING Clause...:yes:.....:D
 
Probably didn't file a flight plan.
 
Landing a PA24 gear up is VERY avoidable (probably more so than nearly any aircraft I've seen), shy of some gear seizure or something.

The one thing I didn't like, in general, was on the electric gear switch.

UP
OFF-Man deployment
DOWN

If you acidently put the gear switch into the OFF position it killed all the warning systems and lights (which were dim anyway) and the gear stays up.

I could EASILY see the pilot just hitting the switch down in a quasi panic, putting the switch into the OFF position and not figuring it out till the scraaaaape.

If I owned a PA24, I'd look to replace the switch with a UP/DOWN with a separate switch for OFF, maybe a guarded switch under the release flap or something.
 
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For those generalizing about piper gear extension modes, the gear system of the comanche and the pa-28/32s are different breeds. The former is much less common, less supported and more likely to not be in a position to work as advertised/prone to binding. The latter defaults to down by gravity and much less likely to bind due to lack of uplocks and the conduits are hydraulic, not mechanical.

I believe at face value the account that these folks were breaking their arms trying to move that handle. Not an uncommon anecdote regarding the comanche motor disengage/mechanical extension mechanism and the need for a specialty eye inspecting/servicing that system.

Is this thing going to be a write off? Honest question. When my Arrow (before I owned it) clipped a tree and did a navy landing with the gear snagging a fenceline, it wasn't a write off. Wing, flaps, gear parts and labor. All that stuff and it flew again below writeoff value. I don't know how the comanche fares in that numbers game but I'm very interested in the outcome as the gear wonkiness and parts sourcing has been pretty central to my decision to stay away from the type as an upgrade to the arrow.
 
James331 said:
If I owned a PA24, I'd look to replace the switch with a UP/DOWN with a separate switch for OFF, maybe a guarded switch under the release flap or something.
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I own one, and I wouldn't.

It's not that difficult to figure out where it is position wise. Plus, you've got the big red knobbed handle on the floor in in most models were you can look at see what's going on.
"Oh, the handle isn't forward? Maybe I shouldn't be landing it just yet."
 
hindsight2020 said:
For those generalizing about piper gear extension modes, the gear system of the comanche and the pa-28/32s are different breeds. The former is much less common, less supported and more likely to not be in a position to work as advertised/prone to binding. The latter defaults to down by gravity and much less likely to bind due to lack of uplocks and the conduits are hydraulic, not mechanical.

I believe at face value the account that these folks were breaking their arms trying to move that handle. Not an uncommon anecdote regarding the comanche motor disengage/mechanical extension mechanism and the need for a specialty eye inspecting/servicing that system.

Is this thing going to be a write off? Honest question. When my Arrow (before I owned it) clipped a tree and did a navy landing with the gear snagging a fenceline, it wasn't a write off. Wing, flaps, gear parts and labor. All that stuff and it flew again below writeoff value. I don't know how the comanche fares in that numbers game but I'm very interested in the outcome as the gear wonkiness and parts sourcing has been pretty central to my decision to stay away from the type as an upgrade to the arrow.
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With all due respect, the above is just not accurate. The Comanche gear is as simple as it comes,stout and mechanical in nature as opposed to hydraulic, and if properly maintained the inspection due every 1000 hours is a non- event. There are no "up locks". The system is operated by a jackscrew that moves cables inside conduits. Emergency extension disconnects the jackscrew, and the gear falls, assisted by elastic bungees. Yes, there is wchances that if the aforementioned spring is not in place, there is an outside chance the jackscrew won't fully swing out of he way, but then if it's not there it's not properly maintained, is it?

Ed, I put a red paint mark on the floor inside the release hatch that matches the lever mechanism when it's in the full extended position so there's no guessing.Suppose I could make a notch for the blind pilots....
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
With all due respect, the above is just not accurate. The Comanche gear is as simple as it comes,stout and mechanical in nature as opposed to hydraulic, and if properly maintained the inspection due every 1000 hours is a non- event. There are no "up locks". The system is operated by a jackscrew that moves cables inside conduits. Emergency extension disconnects the jackscrew, and the gear falls, assisted by elastic bungees. Yes, there is wchances that if the aforementioned spring is not in place, there is an outside chance the jackscrew won't fully swing out of he way, but then if it's not there it's not properly maintained, is it?

Ed, I put a red paint mark on the floor inside the release hatch that matches the lever mechanism when it's in the full extended position so there's no guessing.Suppose I could make a notch for the blind pilots....
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Oh indeed, I'm more than happy to be corrected on this account. I certainly don't discount your opinion since you own one. I've just been led to believe the gear system is problematic in the comanche and this incident replicates the MO behind that accusation. I suppose this was an example of an improperly serviced system or simply worn beyond utility?
Would a vanilla AP have the requisite knowledge to inspect and service the comanche emergency extension assembly? These are all relevant questions when I think of whether a system is "good" or not by definition.

On a related question, is the gear system resettable inflight after a motor disengagement/manual extension?
 
Usually the only thing problematic about the Commanche Gear system is the pilot.

For example the instructor that was trying to pump the gear lever to extend the gear. People on the ground watching the gear go up and down with each pump.

Or the DPE requesting the Commerical Applicant do an emergency gear extension, This isn't done because it is a $500-$1000 Shop bill to reset the system. I would have failed the applicant for not refusing to do so. But then I guess paying the shop bill was probably lesson enough.

As is often is the case, the situation the OP refers to appears be more complicated than that.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
As far as a vanilla A&P inspecting the emergency extension, absolutely. The biggest thing to be wary of is not to let it drop uncontrolled, it can come down with such force as to do damage without wind resistance to cushion it. Nothing to it really, nor is here anything to changing the bungees. The only thing that presents some challenge is setting the preloads, but twenty minutes with the manual and any mechanic worth his salt could get it.

Where your concern is probably stemming from is the conduits, or linear actuators. If they are original, they can bind due to dirt or corrosion and be difficult to move. The best way to check for this is to disconnect them at the wheels and jackscrew (transmission) and see how easily they slide by hand. The modern replacements are Teflon coated cable inside the steel tube...far superior to the original design.

As far as reconnecting the trans to the gear after an emergency extension, you need to be up on jacks. But then it's literally a two minute operation.
 
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hindsight2020 said:
Oh indeed, I'm more than happy to be corrected on this account. I certainly don't discount your opinion since you own one. I've just been led to believe the gear system is problematic in the comanche and this incident replicates the MO behind that accusation. I suppose this was an example of an improperly serviced system or simply worn beyond utility?
Would a vanilla AP have the requisite knowledge to inspect and service the comanche emergency extension assembly? These are all relevant questions when I think of whether a system is "good" or not by definition.

On a related question, is the gear system resettable inflight after a motor disengagement/manual extension?
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Those that talk about the issue with the Comanche gear, generally don't/haven't owned one, and just go based on what someone else said. Just like Beech parts are expensive, the 210 is a maintenance hog, etc...

A vanilla AP should be able to do it. It's pretty simple. It's cables and a jackscrew. The cables release, the gear comes down due to gravity and bungees. The only issue I had with mine was going up, and I replaced the cabling and conduit with the teflon ones Chip mentioned.

Once the emergency gear extension is done, it's only to be reset after landing to make sure it's done right. And the reset procedure isn't that difficult, just need to make sure to get it right.
 
brcase said:
Usually the only thing problematic about the Commanche Gear system is the pilot.

For example the instructor that was trying to pump the gear lever to extend the gear. People on the ground watching the gear go up and down with each pump.

Or the DPE requesting the Commerical Applicant do an emergency gear extension, This isn't done because it is a $500-$1000 Shop bill to reset the system. I would have failed the applicant for not refusing to do so. But then I guess paying the shop bill was probably lesson enough.

As is often is the case, the situation the OP refers to appears be more complicated than that.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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Any shop or mechanic. that charges that much to reconnect a Comanche gear system is an out and out thief. Up on jacks, reconnect the jackscrew, pull down the red clip. Run it up and down a couple times to make sure it works. No more than twenty minutes, tops.
 
brcase said:
Usually the only thing problematic about the Commanche Gear system is the pilot.

For example the instructor that was trying to pump the gear lever to extend the gear. People on the ground watching the gear go up and down with each pump.

Or the DPE requesting the Commerical Applicant do an emergency gear extension, This isn't done because it is a $500-$1000 Shop bill to reset the system. I would have failed the applicant for not refusing to do so. But then I guess paying the shop bill was probably lesson enough.

As is often is the case, the situation the OP refers to appears be more complicated than that.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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Whaaaaaaaaaat? On a Comanche? No way, no how.
 
James331 said:
Landing a PA24 gear up is VERY avoidable (probably more so than nearly any aircraft I've seen), shy of some gear seizure or something.



The one thing I didn't like, in general, was on the electric gear switch.



UP

OFF-Man deployment

DOWN



If you acidently put the gear switch into the OFF position it killed all the warning systems and lights (which were dim anyway) and the gear stays up.



I could EASILY see the pilot just hitting the switch down in a quasi panic, putting the switch into the OFF position and not figuring it out till the scraaaaape.



If I owned a PA24, I'd look to replace the switch with a UP/DOWN with a separate switch for OFF, maybe a guarded switch under the release flap or something.
Click to expand...


Where the heck is the "off" position? I own a Comanche and my gear switch is either "up" or "down". Is the "off" position only on some models?
 
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