Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
Tonight's date night, so I am going to fly my wife to Schaumburg and have dinner. I've never been to 06C before. Any tips with regards to getting in and out? What is the parking situation?
Pilot Pete's - 06C
- Thread starter Jmcmanna
- Start date
MarkZ
En-Route
Last time I was there it was self parking. Tell UNICOM you're going to the restaurant, sometimes they ask where you are going to be sure. Easy getting in and out of there.
Food is good, from what pax have told me, so are the drinks.
Food is good, from what pax have told me, so are the drinks.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Depending what time - You may have already left - The FBO may be closed. There's a gate on the East side of the terminal building/hangar with the code on the inside. After dinner, you'll almost certainly need to get back in via that gate, so take down the code.
Park along the line right in front of the piece of the terminal building that comes out toward the ramp in a semicircle. It's marked on the ramp but kind of hard to read.
Stay out of the Bravo - TPA is 800 AGL.
There's a noise abatement procedure on departures to the west. It's on a sign on the taxiway going to 29. Straight out to 1400 MSL IIRC.
Enjoy - It's a great place! Where in Southern WI are you coming from? Lakeshore is definitely a good side trip too, just watch out for the new arrival into MDW if they're landing on the 22's.
Park along the line right in front of the piece of the terminal building that comes out toward the ramp in a semicircle. It's marked on the ramp but kind of hard to read.
Stay out of the Bravo - TPA is 800 AGL.
There's a noise abatement procedure on departures to the west. It's on a sign on the taxiway going to 29. Straight out to 1400 MSL IIRC.
Enjoy - It's a great place! Where in Southern WI are you coming from? Lakeshore is definitely a good side trip too, just watch out for the new arrival into MDW if they're landing on the 22's.
Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
Very easy trip....line guy had us park right by the front door and pointed us in the right direction...afterward we flew over PWK on our way to the shoreline and did a cruise by downtown before turning around abeam the Willis Tower and going home. Home base is Westosha (5K6).
ScottM
Taxi to Parking
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2005
- Messages
- 42,529
- Location
- Variable, but somewhere on earth
- Display Name
Display name:
iBazinga!
Is the noise abatement to the west new? I was in there last month in the R44 and took off on 29, but just cannot recall seeing anything about that. I may not have even been looking so could have missed it.
I know about the one to the east.
Not seeing the western procedure on the village's website http://www.ci.schaumburg.il.us/TRANS/Airport1/Pages/NoiseAbatement.aspx
Last edited:
gkaiser
Pre-takeoff checklist
Hey! A fellow westosha guy!
gkaiser
Pre-takeoff checklist
Cheesehead - debating flying the skyline tonite. Coming from krpj and heading over towards Gary then north up the coastline. Looks like 22 will be in operation tonite at mdw because of the winds. Any tips for doing it safely and staying out of the way of heavys over the lake?
Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
I'm a Chicago Approach controller, so I can give you the inside scoop on the 22L approaches at MDW.....The RNAV approaches will have aircraft down at 3000 over the lake, and they'll cross the shoreline at about 2500' inbound to MDW. The MDW Charlie airspace doesn't protect for this new approach, so while you're perfectly legal to be there, I would strongly advise descending to 2000 or below as soon as you're north of GYY. Don't climb above that until you're due east of downtown. Consider getting flight following on 128.2 as you go north up the lakeshore (120.55 from the north going south).
The view is awesome and I think it took me about 20 mins from when I turned north at downtown till the wheels hit the pavement at Westosha last night.
The view is awesome and I think it took me about 20 mins from when I turned north at downtown till the wheels hit the pavement at Westosha last night.
Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
I'd rather be talking to you, knowing what you're doing than guessing as I call out traffic to someone else!
gkaiser
Pre-takeoff checklist
I try to do ff 100% if I can. In the event of an emergency atleast I'm talking and someone knows where I'm at. And it's an extra set of eyes on spotting traffic. Free help!
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Nope, been there as long as I've been flying there (several years at least).
Try the A/FD: "Rwy 29 preferred ray in calm and direct crosswinds. Dep acft fly ray heading to 1400' MSL before starting crosswind turn."
The sign is to the left of the taxiway as you're just making the turn towards runway 29.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Them's fightin' words!
JK, welcome aboard.You may not like this as a controller, but I'd advise staying well ABOVE the arrival. See post 20 in this thread and this accident for why. Wake vortices go down, not up.
You must be new to C90.
(The Flight Following situation has gotten markedly better there in recent years - Used to be, you couldn't even get an answer.)Is the 128.2 frequency new? It used to be 120.55 on the lakeshore north of the temple and 118.4 south of the temple, all the way down past Gary. I did see that 128.2 is on the arrival and the approach in question, but I've never been handed off to that frequency on the lakeshore. Has 128.2 replaced 118.4 entirely on the lakeshore? Or is there a new sector boundary in there somewhere?
Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
Staying above the arrival would be better, but 3000 puts you in the Bravo airspace and it would be impossible to maintain the required class B separation with ORD arrivals just north of the MDW approaches. If you want to do the shoreline, lower is the only practical way to go.
118.4 is gone forever. 128.2 replaced 118.4 almost 2 years ago. Detroit approach uses 118.4 and if conditions were right, pilots coming to MDW would hear the pilots in Detroit and vice versa.
I have been here about 5 years. I always answer calls for flight following....ONE time I told an aircraft to call back in 10 minutes because I had way too many airplanes already. I think most of the younger controllers are pretty accommodating ... Some of the older controllers, not so much....but then again, some are.
118.4 is gone forever. 128.2 replaced 118.4 almost 2 years ago. Detroit approach uses 118.4 and if conditions were right, pilots coming to MDW would hear the pilots in Detroit and vice versa.
I have been here about 5 years. I always answer calls for flight following....ONE time I told an aircraft to call back in 10 minutes because I had way too many airplanes already. I think most of the younger controllers are pretty accommodating ... Some of the older controllers, not so much....but then again, some are.
gkaiser
Pre-takeoff checklist
Used FF last night around 8-9pm. Controller was very busy but still found time for me and pointed out some traffic. No complaints here.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Bravo is at 3600 above the MDW arrival, 3000 a bit farther north - I'd probably do the shore at 2500+ and start climbing like mad around the Navy Pier - Soldier Field zone (depending on how far off the shoreline I was, basically as soon as clearing the 3000 foot shelf) to be at 3000 prior to the arrival.
I'll have to look at the ORD arrivals too.
I'd love to do a podcast with you guys sometime...
Ah, good to know. I don't always get FF down the shore, and now that you mention it I do remember being surprised to get something different than 118.4 a while back - That must have been when 128.2 came into use.
Great! Really glad to hear things are improving. Thanks for being part of that!
Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
One more thing to consider....the approach crosses the shoreline right where the bravo goes from 3000 to 3600. South of that is the downwind. The traffic will cross the 31C extended centerline at 4000, then descend to 3000. 3000-3500 will put you right in the middle of the traffic pattern until you're 5 miles south of the final approach course.
gkaiser
Pre-takeoff checklist
Was hoping to do the skyline last night. Went direct to obk vor then east to lakefront and got down to lake forest area when wife was too uncomfortable being over the water and all the traffic in front of us and around ohare/midway so we asked for a 360 back to Wisconsin state line and westosha. Wasn't a big deal at all. Probably best anyways to skip it and play it safe.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm normally a good half mile off shore - Gotta stay away from the buildings, ya know, and still plenty of altitude to be on dry land if something happens - so it looks like it would be possible to get above...
Otherwise, it's a matter of hugging the shoreline, being below 1400 MSL, and betting my life that the vortices won't drop 1000 feet.
In fact, their new AC on the subject now not only acknowledges that vortices can drop more than 1000 feet below the generating aircraft, they can also bounce up and rise in some air masses. Looks like the best thing in this case may be to just stay the hell away from the shoreline route when they're using the new arrival... Sigh.
MarkZ
En-Route
If going southbound, your best bet is to get FF before Wrigley Field on 120.55. We'll tag you up and get you on the right frequency before you get to downtown (in most cases). Then the controller working the RNAV arrivals will be able to let you know how busy MDW is.
If northbound, you'll want to call up 128.2 before you get to GYY.
Depending how busy MDW is, you might be able to call them directly and try for Charlie approval to overfly MDW. I don't work MDW and am not training on those sectors (yet) so Jim might be able to weigh in on that option.
If northbound, you'll want to call up 128.2 before you get to GYY.
Depending how busy MDW is, you might be able to call them directly and try for Charlie approval to overfly MDW. I don't work MDW and am not training on those sectors (yet) so Jim might be able to weigh in on that option.
ScottM
Taxi to Parking
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2005
- Messages
- 42,529
- Location
- Variable, but somewhere on earth
- Display Name
Display name:
iBazinga!
I know R29 was the preferred runway. Just cannot recall the sign and going up to 1400MSL is not even a big deal. Most people are more concerned about the Bravo ceiling above them.
The abatement procedure for R11 is far better known around here because there is a jack wagon under the take off path that will call the FBO and report your tail number if you fly too loudly over his house.
The other reason for the R29 preference is that the floor of the bravo comes down to the ground right at the I355/Rt53 which is just a couple of miles east. There are also two big towers just prior to the highway to get entangled in.
Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
I'm normally a good half mile off shore - Gotta stay away from the buildings, ya know, and still plenty of altitude to be on dry land if something happens - so it looks like it would be possible to get above...
Otherwise, it's a matter of hugging the shoreline, being below 1400 MSL, and betting my life that the vortices won't drop 1000 feet.
Looks like the best thing in this case may be to just stay the hell away from the shoreline route when they're using the new arrival... Sigh.
It may be possible to get to 3500 before the final approach course...but then you'll be in a worse spot in 4 miles...all the traffic from the west for MDW will be at 4000, descending to 3000. You would have to be 25 miles east of the shoreline to remain outside of the arrival streams for MDW. Traffic from GERMN will be at 4000 or above descending to 3000 once past GYY. MDW arrivals can be anywhere between 3000 and 4000 anywhere east of MDW and north of GYY.
If the mission is to fly by downtown in the lakeshore, down low is the only practical option, seriously. During a rush, there might be 10 or 12 airplanes east and south of MDW moving between 170 and 250 knots, between 3000 and 6000 feet. There is nowhere above 3000 in that area where there aren't routinely airliners flying around.
Go to flight aware on a 22L day and watch the moving map. It's not up-to-the-minute, but it gives a general idea of where the airplanes come in from the west, south of MDW at 4000' and descend to 3000' anywhere between the shoreline and 20 miles off shore.
Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
This is the 2nd half of the ENDEE arrival with the RNAV-Z 22L approach....expect aircraft on the blue line anywhere between 3000 and 4000.
Last edited:
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ugh. Now I remember why I put WADLL on my graphic.
I guess it'd have to be climb above the first and drop below the second, which would be a bit crazy even if it'd work.
I guess I'm gonna be doing the shoreline at 1100 MSL/516 AWL when the 22's are in use.
Are they teaching you guys about wake turbulence encounters like the referenced accident these days? Can you share that accident report with the NATCA safety rep for your facility, and preferably everyone who works that sector? This situation is going to cause that to happen again.