Pilot/Owner Mods

Doggtyred said:
There is no compulsory reporting or requirement to snitch.
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I meant this in the context of ratting out another pilot. In some professions its a regulatory requirement to report dangerous conduct to the supervising governmental body.


Doggtyred said:
While neither is an A&P, there is no requirement for A&P "supervision" to be in person and continuous.
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I stand corrected on the IN PERSON portion of my comment. My memory failed me. Or perhaps theres been an update that I've overlooked.

Available in person, yes. Hovering over your shoulder? Only if the person doing the work or the A&P endorsing it feel its necessary.
 
As long as the owner(s) works under the supervision of an A&P mechanic and the proper record entry is made with the owners name included for the work they performed in accordance with FAR 43.9, you are on safe ground. Surprises are what gets people hurt and brings the unwelcome visit from your local inspector wanting to know what happened. Tom gives some good advice, owner should take heed. Been suprised several times myself not a good thing.
 
SCCutler said:
Dude!

She has nothing to be shy about!

So, where in Texas should we expect to see you? There are a lot of Texas folks here; I am ADS-based, frequently found on the ramp at T82 (Fredericksburg) and, when I can manage it, KMRF / Marfa.
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I want to stay anonymous on this forum. I am very active with full disclosure (name, N-number, etc., etc.) on the Mooney lists.

All the questions that I had regarding maintenance have been answered, thanks to all for your help.
 
Ah! Just use us and leave us... I feel so... cheap! (sniff)
 
"Beats hell out of me, it was like that when I bought it. "

gismo said:
Unfortunately, "undoing" an improperly made modification by yourself is just as illegal as the mod was in the first place. Like others have said, you need to find an A&P (in some cases you'll need one with an IA as well) that will work with you and sign things off.

I'm wondering what it is about the "mods" made by the previous owner that you're uncomfortable with. Is it the quality of the work (unapproved wire, connectors, crimps, inadequate labels, etc), the design and/or function of the changes (insufficient overcurrent protection, non-standard mod, etc), or just the "illegality" of it that you are concerned with?

I'm an engineer too and frequently participate in the modification and repair of my airplanes but I do this with the assistance of a few qualified techs to keep it legal (and safe). On mechanical issues that I haven't dealt with before I'll seek the knowledge required to do it correctly from a trusted A&P, usually by having him work with me directly the first time. For electrical issues I almost always do a fair amount of the diagnosis by myself since I've found that I'm usually more capable of that than most certified mechanics, but when it comes to the "fix" I'll do the work under the supervison of an A&P (who then signs off the repair in the logs) even though I probably understand the problem better than the mechanic. And I've found that once they get to know me, the good mechanics have no problem with that (a rare few will have ego issues).

As to the "turning in" of other owners doing their own work, I'd stay well away from that unless you're certain there's a significant safety risk to you or others besides the owner. For one thing, you probably have no way of knowing that the work isn't being supervised (loosely) by a certified mechanic. And for the most part I'd say what they are doing is their own business whether perfectly kosher or not. You certainly aren't obligated to police the airport for such "evildoers" and I think that most other pilot/owners would not take kindly to you're attempts to fulfill that role.

Are you well versed in what pilot/owners are legally allowed to do in the way of "preventative maintenance"? You can find a copy of FAR 23 appendix A which spells this out fairly clearly. You should also know that when a pilot does this kind of work he is also required to sign off on the work in the logs.

I'd also like to point out that many shops and/or mechanics will often perform some repair without making a log entry, especially when the result is an airplane that's restored to the exact same condition as it was before the problem repaired occurred, e.g. tightening a loose clamp or replacing a missing fastener or a failed circuit breaker. Since most parts aren't serialized and most part 91 piston powered airplanes never undergo much scrutiny this kind of thing rarely has any negative consequences whether done by a certified mechanic or a savvy owner. I've also seen some horriblly implemented electrical work by certified mechanics that should know better. I once owned a Bonanza I purchased from an owner who had an A&P certificate. He had installed several items that were wired with rubber insulated "lampcord" and had made connections by twisting wires together and covering the splice with electrical tape (at least he didn't use masking tape!). The mechanical work he'd done was considerably better but even there I found a (very) few items that had me shaking my head in wonder.

For reasons I've never fully understood, it's quite legal for a private pilot with no mechanical experience or ability to change the oil, replace spark plugs, fuel lines, or remove and install any non-structural components of the airplanes to name a few items. IMO it would make a lot more sense if the regs required a signoff by a certified mechanic in the pilot's logbook stating that the pilot has the knowledge required to perform each specific task or type of work, in some cases restricted to a particular make/model of aircraft. And I believe that the kinds tasks that a pilot could be allowed to do and sign off independently could be expanded well beyond the current set in part 23. Unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps) I'm not running things at the FAA.
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wabower said:
"Beats hell out of me, it was like that when I bought it. "
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If they buy that, it would get you off the hook for modifying/repairing a certified aircraft and returning it to service improperly, but you could still be in trouble for flying an unairworthy aircraft.:nono:
 
You could have at least given us cab fare.
 
Part 23 Appendix A (c) Preventive Maintenance allows the owner/operator to troubleshoot and repair landing light wiring. Seems to me every wire in the airplane is somehow connected to the landing light wires {;-)

Part 21.303 (b)(2) allows the owner/operator of an aircraft the right to make parts for the airplane without the need for a Parts Manufacturing Approval (PMA). However, that owner-manufactured part has to be installed by a properly certificated mechanic.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Part 21.303 (b)(2) allows the owner/operator of an aircraft the right to make parts for the airplane without the need for a Parts Manufacturing Approval (PMA). However, that owner-manufactured part has to be installed by a properly certificated mechanic.

Jim
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There is more to than than just making a part.

watch this PPT presentation specially the slides 49-52

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/orl/local_more/media/ppt/spec6-1.ppt

You can't just bang one out and be good to go, there are other AC that the FAA excepts as excitable methods.
 
I want to stay anonymous on this forum.


Ah! Just use us and leave us... I feel so... cheap! (sniff)
__________________
Cigarette anyone? We've just been rolled
__________________

So, where in Texas should we expect to see you? There are a lot of Texas folks here; I am ADS-based, frequently found on the ramp at T82 (Fredericksburg) and, when I can manage it, KMRF / Marfa

Mr. Harley Ross Myler rides in N5976Q from Beaumont,TX.
 
58_Super_Cub said:
I want to stay anonymous on this forum.


Ah! Just use us and leave us... I feel so... cheap! (sniff)
__________________
Cigarette anyone? We've just been rolled
__________________

So, where in Texas should we expect to see you? There are a lot of Texas folks here; I am ADS-based, frequently found on the ramp at T82 (Fredericksburg) and, when I can manage it, KMRF / Marfa

Mr. Harley Ross Myler rides in N5976Q from Beaumont,TX.
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That's Dr. to you bozo.
 
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