Corpsmaide
Cleared for Takeoff
What are your views? I'd much rather continue to save to finish training, but its tempting. It has been at almost every school I am looking at. I anyone fall to temptation? In reference to Pilot Financing!
Pilot Finance
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JHW
En-Route
Would you borrow money to buy cigarettes ?
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
What are you going to do when you get the ticket? Is the ticket a means to an end or an end in itself?
Cost will go down some because you no longer are paying the guy/guyette in the right seat, but if you are paying on a loan where will you get the funds to fly?
Some borrowing to get over the "hump" may make sense for some individuals, but in general, I think it makes sense to have a flying budget that you can live with and sustain.
Cost will go down some because you no longer are paying the guy/guyette in the right seat, but if you are paying on a loan where will you get the funds to fly?
Some borrowing to get over the "hump" may make sense for some individuals, but in general, I think it makes sense to have a flying budget that you can live with and sustain.
Corpsmaide
Cleared for Takeoff
JHW
En-Route
in that case, aviation debt may be right up your alley. A assume this is the end game, no aspirations for wild ideas like a having a family or owning a house ?
Corpsmaide
Cleared for Takeoff
Just need to finish private, so I can enroll in 141 VA approved school to use GI Bill to cover additional ratings
JHW
En-Route
a long road which terminates in either unemployment or a poverty-level job. Best to start out that poverty with no debt.
Corpsmaide
Cleared for Takeoff
That's what I needed to hear! I will stick with saving up...thanks
JHW
En-Route
sorry to be blunt but once you dig that hole there is no getting out. Several of the tenants of our rental houses will never own anything of any substance, because of poor decisions starting out their lives.
saracelica
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saracelica
If you're okay with going into debt for a hobby by all means. Everyone handles money themselves - hence personal finance. I probably wouldn't. Save for what you want it'll mean more to you. Go without some of the nicer stuff. As Dave Ramsey would say "Live like no one else - so that later you can live like no one else"
Do you really want to have another beer with your friends or your certificate.
Do you really want to have another beer with your friends or your certificate.
JB1842
En-Route
Under the Post 09/11 GI Bill, private is covered.
Vocational Flight Schools
The actual net costs not to exceed $10,330.00 per academic year.
Tony_Scarpelli
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Tony_Scarpelli
On one hand they say never borrow for something you dont need. However if I had financed my PPL back in 1975 it would have cost me under $950. If I waited to pay chase I would be 20 years older and it would cost $5000.
In this case, maybe finance is not so stupid.
However, just because you are financing doesn't mean you should prepay or do anything overly expensive.
What are the prices they are quoting you?
Corpsmaide
Cleared for Takeoff
http://www.pilotfinance.com/pages/548215/index.htm
This is the site...many of the schools i visited handed me the brochure. It's not for me tho
simtech
En-Route
The private is only covered if you are enrolled in a professional track that covers private to commercial. Otherwise the private by itself will not be covered as it does not lead to a vocation. I am enrolling in my IR through a 141 school and talked with a VA case manager to get the facts as I heard a lot of different info. With that they will cover the IR, comm., and anything else above the private. So unless he has the 48 month’s worth of post 9/11 entitlement he will be better severed saving to finish his private and then go post 9/11. 4 years of entitlement x $10,300 yearly cap = $41,200. I think even a professional track will cost more than that starting from scratch, could be wrong though.
Corpsmaide
Cleared for Takeoff
Yup, gotta finish my private on my own. Then I will continue 141 for addons. Does your school require you to pay upfront, then reimburse you when the VA cuts the check?
KeithASanford
Line Up and Wait
I'm not exactly sure what your timeline is, but if I were you, I would just patiently save. Most people don't consider going into debt bad because if the payment is small, it's manageable. Find out what the actual cost of borrowing will be and ask yourself if that's an amount you're willing to burn. Also find out what the actual cost of, say, the remaining required hours of dual instruction will be and calculate how long it would take to save that amount. Then, if you really want this, decide to give up EVERYTHING ELSE until you save that amount. No eating out, no movies, insist every gift from family is money to help you reach your goal. Everything goes in the flight school fund. Income from a second job, overtime, bonuses, everything. While you're saving, immerse yourself in any and all free or cost effective Private pilot ground school resources. Library books, Exam4pilots.com, buy used study materials on Ebay, come here and dig for answers and even ask dumb questions. Learning while you're saving and paying cash is going to be more fulfilling than dragging that unnecessary debt behind you. Just my opinion.
simtech
En-Route
I have to pay half up front and then get reimbursed after I complete. Although I'm not sure how they are going to set that up, whether the school will reimburse me which I don't like unless it is in writing, or the VA will reimburse me. I'll find out more next week. I just got all my VA stuff finished( I switched my MGIB which I used all up over to the post 9/11) so now I have to go back to the school and get that stuff going next week. I hope to be starting the first week of Feb!
Corpsmaide
Cleared for Takeoff
I could not agree more! Thank you for the comment. I really really appreciate it
simtech
En-Route
Corpsmaide
Cleared for Takeoff
I hope you do get to start soon!! Please PM me in the future with further details in reference to the process and handling of the VA...I hope it goes smooth for you
schmookeeg
En-Route
When our school lost Sallie Mae as a source of reasonable student loans, Pilot Finance stepped in with their product.
The interest rates were embarassing -- even for very well-qualified borrowers. Well over credit card interest rates.
We had 2 people go that route anyway. A quote is free, and debt is a tool -- but PFI was always low on my list of things worth considering -- and we never offered it unless asked strongly.
I say get the quote. Look at the "cost of this financing", chuckle, and make a paper airplane with it.
The interest rates were embarassing -- even for very well-qualified borrowers. Well over credit card interest rates.
We had 2 people go that route anyway. A quote is free, and debt is a tool -- but PFI was always low on my list of things worth considering -- and we never offered it unless asked strongly.
I say get the quote. Look at the "cost of this financing", chuckle, and make a paper airplane with it.
simtech
En-Route
Aviator1945
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Aviator1945
Don't ! I had first had experience with them ! they use the rule of 78 you will pay 18% upfront without realizing it ( most states have banned rule of 78) and once you the sign the documents their is no way out . they will restrict you to not flying more than 2/4 times a week. and you will continue to pay for about fives years "long after your training is over , best save or use home equity loan or borrow else where
HerrGruyere
Line Up and Wait
I wouldn't use Pilot Finance. Their interest rates are way too high.
I will admit that I did finance my initial certificate because I had intentions of continuing to finance this until I got a jerb. I completed my PPL and will be handing back the rest. What I have to pay now is manageable with my current job, but it's not a wise idea to continue financing.
I certainly didn't use Pilot Finance, though. I used someone else.
I will admit that I did finance my initial certificate because I had intentions of continuing to finance this until I got a jerb. I completed my PPL and will be handing back the rest. What I have to pay now is manageable with my current job, but it's not a wise idea to continue financing.
I certainly didn't use Pilot Finance, though. I used someone else.
DogDaddy
Pre-takeoff checklist
I started training at a flight school that accepted Pilot Finance. I filled out all the paperwork and got approved. But then I switched schools. The new school used Sallie Mae so I got a loan from them instead. With both companies, you can borrow a large amount and pay it back over several years, with payment amounts varying according to how long the loan is for. Choose either high payments over 2 or 3 years, or lower payments over 5 years or so. Just like a car payment.
The advantage of it is, you can get your flight training done as quickly as you want. In my case I flew 3 times a week. The last 2 weeks before my checkride I flew every day. Whereas if you save up a certain amount of money, you may find that your training takes longer (and costs more) than you have saved up...which means you might have to take a break from it until you can save up more money.
The disadvantage is, you're committed to paying off a loan for several years. Even after passing your checkride, you still have those monthly payments to make. You might end up not being able to do as much flying as you'd like (or go on to further ratings) until the loan is paid off.
But it's the same with, say, a car loan. Not many people can save up enough money to pay cash for a new car. So they get a loan. They're committed to making payments for 5 years or so...but they get to start driving the new car right away. So I'd guess you have to look at your own circumstances. Are you able to committ to paying off a loan for several years? In my case I had just paid off a car and it was still in great shape. I was certain I would not have any unexpected expenses come up for a few more years (needing a new car, child being born, etc). So in my case, taking out a loan worked out well. But for other people taking out such a large loan (mine was $10K) could end up being a trap. It's something you have to analyze for yourself.
The advantage of it is, you can get your flight training done as quickly as you want. In my case I flew 3 times a week. The last 2 weeks before my checkride I flew every day. Whereas if you save up a certain amount of money, you may find that your training takes longer (and costs more) than you have saved up...which means you might have to take a break from it until you can save up more money.
The disadvantage is, you're committed to paying off a loan for several years. Even after passing your checkride, you still have those monthly payments to make. You might end up not being able to do as much flying as you'd like (or go on to further ratings) until the loan is paid off.
But it's the same with, say, a car loan. Not many people can save up enough money to pay cash for a new car. So they get a loan. They're committed to making payments for 5 years or so...but they get to start driving the new car right away. So I'd guess you have to look at your own circumstances. Are you able to committ to paying off a loan for several years? In my case I had just paid off a car and it was still in great shape. I was certain I would not have any unexpected expenses come up for a few more years (needing a new car, child being born, etc). So in my case, taking out a loan worked out well. But for other people taking out such a large loan (mine was $10K) could end up being a trap. It's something you have to analyze for yourself.
supernovae
Line Up and Wait
I find that you can honestly train as much as you can honestly fly.. If you borrow to cram training in, how are you going to afford to keep current and fly after your ppl?
wickedsprint
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Wickedsprint
I used them for my fixed wing ppl about 7 years ago. I paid it off within a year or so.
At the time I liked the finance option because it allowed me to fly more frequently vs saving for a year ahead of time.
At the time I liked the finance option because it allowed me to fly more frequently vs saving for a year ahead of time.
DrMack
Line Up and Wait
Always better to pay cash. But if your cash flow is not sufficient to prevent starts and stops you might consider a line of credit to make sure your training is uninterrupted. You'll finish sooner and safer because your proficiency will not erode during your training. With the line of credit in hand you don't have to use it. You can still pay cash for lessons when you can and just use the LoC to fill the gaps when you're a dollar short for that next lesson on Thursday because payday is Friday.
Warrior
Line Up and Wait
I agree with those who say that cash is the way to go. I think that the posters who talk about deep holes that you cannot dig out of are telling the truth for many folks.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Wise words.
Here is the thing....a person wanting to be a doctor or lawyer can get themselves into a large amount of debt, but there is some expectation that they will eventually make sufficient money in a few years to pay off that debt.
A pilot on the other hand can easily rack up the same amount of debt only to find themselves frequently unemployed and or working for more than 10 years at elementary school teacher wages.
And commercial pilot pay ain't getting any better.
Botskys
Filing Flight Plan
I was think of borrowing from my 401k. I only need like 3 thousand to get started than I can save from their and pay my self back at 4.25 APR. I know it's my future but it wont take me long to pay it back. Any thought's. Good or bad.
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Very VERY bad idea. For reasons quoted below.
But if you're telling the truth of "...it won't take me long to pay back," I would suggest DELAYING gratification, leaving the 401K alone, and save up this payback money so you can start your training with out any debt hanging over you.
Now why is it bad to borrrow from the 401k?
DaveRamsey.com said:
I get it that you want to start your training NOW. But the end results are that much sweeter when you waited, saved, and earned the certificate with money left over to take your first passengers for burgers or BBQ.
DO NOT BORROW FROM THE 401K
MDeitch1976
Line Up and Wait
I was interested in Pilot Finance for a little bit of time. My thought was if it is just a hobby then having to payback a loan for several years while flying less is not worth it. Unless of course my income goes up during that time. Getting my PPL took longer because I used the available cash I had. However, more funds are available because I am not paying back a loan, and of course the cost to fly is less without having to bring an instructor along. Of course, I still find myself out with instructors. Getting checked out in different aircraft, at different FBOs too. Also, tonight I will be starting my IR training. I feel like I am going to be a perpetual student, but I love it.
After I receive my IR, I may or may not try to become a CFI. If I do this will be in lieu of my normal 9-5, and maybe consider taking out financing. In my opinion try to knock out at least your PPL out of pocket, and then decide if taking out financing for further ratings is worth it.
After I receive my IR, I may or may not try to become a CFI. If I do this will be in lieu of my normal 9-5, and maybe consider taking out financing. In my opinion try to knock out at least your PPL out of pocket, and then decide if taking out financing for further ratings is worth it.
supernovae
Line Up and Wait
3k isn't bad.. I lose that much in daily market swings. My employer matching is so strong that the convenience of borrowing from myself within reason outweighs the "promise" of leaving it there. I've had my 401k for ages and its never magically multiplied so much that I've missed out on some magical paper growth.
Then again, I wouldn't buy an airplane against my 401k heh.. I have my "within reason" limits..
I'm so heavily vested in my 401k to optimize my employer matching that I did so to have this flexibility.. would much rather borrow from myself than put it on credit card, kill my emergency funds or beat myself up for never finishing something.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Meh. I closed out my 401k completely right before the dot come went dot boom. Put it all in my house, and watched all the 401k values crap out. Even paying the taxes and penalty I was still ahead of where I was had I left it in.
Aviator1945
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Aviator1945
Don't ! PF uses "Rule of 78th an average 18 % interest rate once you sign the dotted line you cannot out of it even if you decide to pay upfront they charge interest up front and than the principle in 5 years it is double the amount even if you choose to pay it off in less than two years ! in some states this sort of financing is banned !
PF is what we are going to see if the goverment gets out of student loans and mortgages. It is not that PF is too expensive, other sources of financing are too cheap. Their interest rates are a reflection of the likelihood for them to get paid back on time and without collection action.