Picking a CFI and other stuff

[Mike Smith]

Im just starting my training. A few questions for the board. I have a few different options for training. I am fortunate that I live very near two uncontrolled airports and one controlled. What are the pros and cons for training at a controlled verses uncontrolled airport? I have met with one instructor at one of the uncontrolled, however he didnt really impress me. He was late for the flight by 15 minutes. He wasnt much on info as we were flying. However i have talked to a couple of his students who say they like the VERY laid back approach. He is a little cheaper than most and the rental on a 172 is a little cheaper, He doesnt have a 152 to offer. There is a school at the controlled, ( i say school, its really just a group of instructors ) A little more per hour, but has a 152 which is about $15 per hour cheaper than the 172. They also offer an optional ground school for $300 plus material. I know I have to make my own choice, but would like to hear differing opinions and experiences. Thanks in advance!!!

Mike

 

[DavidWhite]

Honestly (I am a student pilot, but have trained at both) I prefer controlled airports. If you fly out of Uncontrolled and dont visit controlled often sometimes people get intimidated by ATC. I know I was.


Just my $.02

 

[RyanShort1]

Honestly (I am a student pilot, but have trained at both) I prefer controlled airports. If you fly out of Uncontrolled and dont visit controlled often sometimes people get intimidated by ATC. I know I was.


Just my $.02

I know you... J/K.

Honestly, the real answer to this problem, is to face it up front and make a plan. You're a step ahead because you recognize it. You'll likely spend more money up front at the controlled field, if it is busy, and your instructor there, if it is busy, is more likely than not to take you to the uncontrolled field for a lot of work. If not, then it fan be the best of both worlds. If your instructor is willing to work with you, ask him to mix it up. If you fly from the uncontrolled field, ask to go to the controlled field for practice, and if at the controlled field, make sure you go to an uncontrolled field - preferably a busy one at least once, too.

I trained some out of a big class C airport (KSAT) and we spent 5-10 minutes EVERY single flight extra waiting for takeoff clearance, and then spent a lot of time traveling to and from the airport to other airports when they wouldn't let us practice landings there. That probably added 15-20 hours to my private pilot's license training time.

Ryan

 

[RyanShort1]

I have met with one instructor at one of the uncontrolled, however he didnt really impress me. He was late for the flight by 15 minutes. He wasnt much on info as we were flying. However i have talked to a couple of his students who say they like the VERY laid back approach. He is a little cheaper than most and the rental on a 172 is a little cheaper, He doesnt have a 152 to offer. There is a school at the controlled, ( i say school, its really just a group of instructors ) A little more per hour, but has a 152 which is about $15 per hour cheaper than the 172. They also offer an optional ground school for $300 plus material. I know I have to make my own choice, but would like to hear differing opinions and experiences. Thanks in advance!!!

Mike

I would ask the laid back guy up front why he was late, and ask other students if that happens often. If it does, that could be a problem, but it might not be typical.
I know I end up late every once in a while - usually because of the previous student... or some other real issue that is not easily predictable or easy to brush aside. That doesn't excuse it, but it does happen.

Ryan

 

[JesseD]

This is my 2 pence, take it as you will.

I like KATW. Laid back, met the ATC guys, and solved my "mic fright" that way. Little or no wait. We do give way to scheduled commuter flights, but that's a courtesy not a requirement, because students (including me) take longer on run-up and briefing. I like the place, and the ATC guys are very accommodating. I do TnG's all the time with nothing other than extended bases or right-traffic requests once in a while.

One thing I will say, make sure you get uncontrolled "small" field landing practice. I know of one instructor, an experienced CFI, that refused to land / train at 79C I'm a student and I'VE landed at Brennand. Sure, it's tight for a newbie, but not scary at all. I considered it important to learn to land at smaller fields, because not every airport has an extra 4k'+ x 130' of spare runway.

Consider it carefully, because not every place is the same.

 

[Ted]

I learned at a controlled field, and I'm glad I did. It got me used to radio work and dealing with going to larger airports. Of course, you can learn that later, and there are times when dealing with tower can be a pain. So that's really 6 of one, half-dozen of the other. I'd pick the field where the CFI you want is, or the one that's most convenient.

As to CFIs, there are a broad range out there. The important thing is to find one that works for you. My CFI was late to my first lesson (and probably every other lesson thereafter), but I also knew I had a good one when he saw how to make it fun, and give me the experiences I needed to develop as a pilot. However, you might be better off with something more structured. You have to decide that. I personally prefer a more laid back approach. Like colleges or cars, it's a personal choice.

 

[Matthew]

I trained at a towered airport. It's not as big a deal as a lot of people might think. You'll get used to radio work, starting with your first lesson, and you'll get pretty comfortable quickly. Yeah, it might add some time to each lesson because of the time involved getting clearances, holding for other traffic, taxiing, ...

On the other hand, you really only deal with the tower and ATC when you take off and land. In between, you probably will be doing a lot of other work at a nearby untowered airport anyway.

It's not always about the $$$, there is a certain amount of value in the extra experience, too.


--

Edit: Oh, yeah - I took a ground school course at a community college. It was a good way to get it out of the way at a fixed cost, rather than hourly. Some people like the on-line ground-schools, but that style just doesn't work too well for me.

 

[barnstorm]

why not some of both?

No one instructor is the "best" for every student.

Student learning styles vary GREATLY and instructor styles vary often.

Some instructors are great an the onset of learning to fly but lack skills in helping the student refine and finalize, others are just the opposite.

I STRONGLY suggest you fly with as many CFIs as practical.

I have flown with dozens of CFIs as I have learned to fly many aircraft, have taken many friends through the process, and I have learned a lot from my students as well.

No CFI should have a problem with you taking lessons from other CFIs. If he/she does then they have an ego problem of their own.

I have learned something new and useful from EVERY CFI that I have ever flown with.

.

 

[steingar]

Fly out of controlled airspace and you get used to flying out of controlled airspace. Fly out of uncontrolled and you don't. Also, which is closer, which is cheaper and stuff like that. Just stick to the plan once you decide on it.

 

[bluee]

The CFI I had for my private training was very laid back. At the time I liked that style, until it aggravated me that he was unorganized and too laid back. I finally realized he dragged everything out at long as possible to make as much money as possible off me. We'd repeat lessons. When I was having trouble with something, he'd tell me I have to practice, but practicing something wrong doesn't help. Anyway, by the time I realized I should find another CFI, I was ready to take my checkride, I just wish I left months earlier. The CFII I have now for my instrument training is very organized with each lesson.

My training has been at uncontrolled fields. I would think that controlled might be better, but make sure you don't lose the ability to think for yourself at uncontrolled fields without someone telling you which runway to use.

 

[steingar]

Laid back, disorganized, and are different phenomena.

 

[EdFred]

I prefer uncontrolled fields for most training with A LOT of hops into controlled airspace and fields. It's nice to be a 10 minute flight from a Class C, and still do the see and avoid thing at the home drome. Training at a controlled field you miss out on a few things. Hard to surprise the student with an "engine failure" on a take-off roll when you tell the tower ahead of time you are going to...........surprise the student with an engine failure on takeoff roll. Not to mention a bunch of other freedoms at uncontrolled fields.

 

[Mike Smith]

Good info! Thanks for the input. I could fly from either of the uncontrlled fields to the controlled field in about 10 minutes, its that close. There are some other things going on. The controlled field is also an ANG field, so LOTS of F-16's to dodge. Then there is the Air Force base in between where they fly C-130's day and night so there is that airspace to avoid. It really is an interesting place to fly. Also at about 40 miles out you reach the Atlanta control area (not sure if that is the proper term). Went on a pleasure ride with a pilot friend of mine this morning and we had flight following from Atlanta the whole time. Keep the info coming....I love this stuff!!!!!!!

Mike

 

[bbchien]

Mike go with the right instructor. Never mind the relative cost of the airplanes.

 

[TripleZ]

This is my 2 pence, take it as you will.


One thing I will say, make sure you get uncontrolled "small" field landing practice. I know of one instructor, an experienced CFI, that refused to land / train at 79C I'm a student and I'VE landed at Brennand. Sure, it's tight for a newbie, but not scary at all. I considered it important to learn to land at smaller fields, because not every airport has an extra 4k'+ x 130' of spare runway.

Consider it carefully, because not every place is the same.

Ah, Brennand. I still remember the first time I went in there with a co-worker (before my license).

Were gonna land WHERE??

Near the end of my training, I went in with my last instructor. No problems, even with a decent cross wind. The small fields require better centerline tracking and ground control. Well worth it.

I learned out of Fond du Lac, uncontrolled. I had mic fright the first time I went into Oshkosh, but a good instructor will help with that, and work with you to get the conversation down.

Id rather learn out of an uncontrolled, just to avoid traffic congestion. It also taught me to make better self-announced calls, while inbound or moving near the airport.

 

[Erice]

I vote for going with the CFI that is the best fit for you. It's hard to tell that without flying with them, or at least "interviewing" them.

But if all other things are equal, I agree with those saying train at the uncontrolled field, with frequent trips into towered fields. That gives you the best of both worlds.

 

[zaitcev]

The controlled field is also an ANG field, so LOTS of F-16's to dodge. Then there is the Air Force base in between where they fly C-130's day and night so there is that airspace to avoid.

I'm based out of KABQ, which is colocated with Kirtland AFB. I found fighters and transports entirely harmless. The only annoyance is that they talk to the ATC on their own frequencies and therefore you may not know if they are occupying the controller's attention. Of course you have to pay attention to the wake turbulence, but that is something that has to be habitual. However, it is quite unpleasant to live next to Chinooks and Ospreys. Their downwash can flip you over, so you better take them seriously. If one is landing next to you, turn into him and hold some up elevator.

 

[denverpilot]

CFI first.

Controlled and uncontrolled airports isn't enough information. There are quiet controlled airports and there are uncontrolled airports where you'll be number ten for departure on a nice Saturday morning and number seven in the pattern.

 

[Ted]

Hard to surprise the student with an "engine failure" on a take-off roll when you tell the tower ahead of time you are going to...........surprise the student with an engine failure on takeoff roll. Not to mention a bunch of other freedoms at uncontrolled fields.

We never told tower that, we just did it. They know which aircraft are training planes, say their required "do you require assistance?" "Nope, we're fine" and keeps on going.

Might be harder at GRR, but where I trained, it wasn't an issue.

 

[steamee]

I went through 2 CFIs on my way to PPL. Unintentionally since the first CFI left the flight school. Slowed me down since I had to adjust to a new person and a new style. However, the 2nd CFI had more experience and I think that counted for more towards the end. Both CFIs contributed to my license, but if I had to choose one I'd go with the more experienced. Mostly as a personality and learning style fit.

Consider how much time you'll need based on your flying schedule. I ended up needing ~110 due to scheduling and other life events. If you're taking the slow road you really want someone you like flying with and not just tolerate.

I trained at towered (KBED) and don't regret it. We flew to uncontrolled fields nearby all the time. It is a great idea to land on shorter runways, but when you're just starting out it's nice to see that wide 7000' strip of asphalt too. Also less stressful for the initial crosswind training. I've often found that the most difficult part of a flight was after I had landed and needed to figure out the taxiways at a new airport. Being at a bigger place to start at least gets you more comfortable with the signage and talking with ground control.

So consider where you want to fly after getting your license. I live and fly near BOS. Solid radio skill is a definite requirement around here. Getting accustomed to the added radio work load of frequency changes and busier controlled airspace from the beginning was one less thing I'd have to sweat about on test day. CTAF work was easy by comparison.

Good luck!

 

[jesse]

No CFI should have a problem with you taking lessons from other CFIs. If he/she does then they have an ego problem of their own.

To be fair, once you get a few hours into training, switching instructors constantly isn't the best idea. We all teach a little differently and ultimately one of us needs to sign you off to solo and we need to have flown with you for some time to be comfortable doing so.

Flying a lesson with a different instructor at various points in training in a "stage check" format can be a very positive thing.

 

[ziege]

Just to chime in...my own experience is that the "pick the CFI first" advice is dead on.

I may be biased, but switching CFIs (really switching) is miserable, expensive, and should be avoided if at all possible. Or maybe I'm not biased so much as "burned."

I didn't do a good job picking CFIs when I started training. My first CFI was actually very good as a CFI, but that was just luck, not me picking well. He was the best schedule match at the closest FBO so we flew together. As it happened we got along great and he was a really good instructor. He was also a short timer who left for a better job just after my first solo. I went through three others in quick succession.

I've now been drilled to always use carb heat on landing (C-GUMPS), and chastised by instructors for pulling carb heat at GUMPs time. I've had instructors insist that I always try to use 30 degree turns in the pattern, and another instructor yelled/almost yanked the controls out of my hand for going past 20 degrees. On and on...every single CFI knows the Right Way to do everything, but no two CFIs do everything the same way.

Within 12 hours of switching instructors I went from having fun learning/growing confidence in my basic flying skills to realizing that I was getting worse, hesitating and spending time trying to think through what a particular CFI wanted out of everything I'd been taught instead of flying the plane, and I was not having fun. In the end I gave up on the whole thing and stopped flying for years.

I now have a new CFI, and I'm basically starting over (looking forward to my second first solo ), and my hope is that I'll be able to fly with this guy through my first checkride and perhaps beyond. You can bet I tried harder to screen my CFI this time around.