Photo session in flight

[Diana]

You guys have any words of wisdom about air-to-air photography (other than the usual "be careful" and "have someone else besides the pilot do the shooting")? We are trying to shoot the Citabria doing acro from the Skyhawk. Our amateur photographer is not used to having airplanes moving around while he's shooting them.

 

[silver-eagle]

You guys have any words of wisdom about air-to-air photography (other than the usual "be careful" and "have someone else besides the pilot do the shooting")? We are trying to shoot the Citabria doing acro from the Skyhawk. Our amateur photographer is not used to having airplanes moving around while he's shooting them.

My aerial photography has been limited to still pix of ground based lighthouses using a digital camera but...

I would suppose that to get good videos, all those involved would need to understand where everyone will be when. That means a preflight briefing so the acro pilot knows where she'll be, the phot ship pilot knows, and the camera person knows. The movie guys use a script board which you can dummy up also.

Anything that works. And practice it a few times before the final copy. In fact, practice it on ground based targets first. Get used to shooting from the air.

 

[silver-eagle]

Oh... And did I mention, your previous videos were terrific. It's only logical the next step would be to have the cameraman up in the air with you.

 

[Diana]

Oh... And did I mention, your previous videos were terrific.

Thank you John, that's sweet.

It's only logical the next step would be to have the cameraman up in the air with you.

Actually we're trying to get still shots of a moving airplane. And my friend has a 35 MM camera and we're getting the digital pictures from that (the only friend that I have locally with a zoom...I just hate to do acro too close to another airplane.)

The guys in the other airplane want slow flight one second, to acro the next and it isn't that easy to do in my Citabria.

I still need to do spins with the video cam from inside the Citabria, and then shoot acro with the video cam from another airplane. So much fun to be had, and so little time.

 

[Richard]

Use a gyro camera stabilizer. Do you get a choice of f-stops on a digital similar to an SLR?

 

[Diana]

Use a gyro camera stabilizer. Do you get a choice of f-stops on a digital similar to an SLR?

Well, I didn't understand much of that, but I did hear him mention f-stops. What is an f-stop?

Here's a few from today. The rolls were still too far away.

 

[SCCutler]

...somehow cooler, now that I have seen and (gently) touched the Citabluberria.

 

[Dean]

Diana,

Is that I-44 or US-71 in the background?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Very nice Diana, loved the lighting on the first one.

 

[Diana]

Diana,

Is that I-44 or US-71 in the background?

That would be US-71. We flew down to I-44 trying to get the shots.

 

[Diana]

Buy a Lear with Astrovision..

Maybe it would be cheaper to rent?

and a few shooting notes from a client...

Interesting the parallels with those comments. Had to take the screws out of both windows so they would come all the way out in flight. And common landmarks to regroup included "I'm over the railroad tracks over the farm", or "I'm over the dirt road one mile west of Boston."

 

[Diana]

...somehow cooler, now that I have seen and (gently) touched the Citabluberria.

Spike, you have a lovely way with words.

Did you touch the Citabluberria?

We didn't have time to fly together at Gaston's. Where did the time go? Come up to the farm with your family and let's go flying.

 

[Diana]

Very nice Diana, loved the lighting on the first one.

Thank you Dave! I'll pass that on to the photographer. Poor guy has to go fly with me every day this week till he gets it right (after I get my broken tailwheel fixed). He has accepted the challenge and won't rest till he gets it right to my satisfaction. Maybe I should also give him some fresh produce from the garden to keep him going?

 

[Diana]

Very nice Diana, loved the lighting on the first one.

Speaking of lighting, I've heard that the lighting is best for photos at the first 30 minutes of the day and the last 30 minutes, which is what we tried to do the last few days. Why is that?

 

[Bill]

The rolls were still too far away.

I really like the first one, the plane really stands out! Sharp.

 

[Iceman]

You guys have any words of wisdom about air-to-air photography (other than the usual "be careful" and "have someone else besides the pilot do the shooting")? We are trying to shoot the Citabria doing acro from the Skyhawk. Our amateur photographer is not used to having airplanes moving around while he's shooting them.

My suggestion to you would be very careful posting air-air pictures online unless both parties have formation flying training...I did and I was basically "forced" to remove them because I did not want to get the other pilot in trouble.

 

[Iceman]

Well, I didn't understand much of that, but I did hear him mention f-stops. What is an f-stop?

Here's a few from today. The rolls were still too far away.

Not getting too technical the f-stop is the term used to describe the aperture setting of the lens you are using. The limits of the f-stop is a factor of the lens you are using (on dslr's and slr's). A "fast lens" will have a lower f value like 1.8, 2.0, 2.8. These lenses, normally more expensive, prime (non zoom), or both will gather light at a faster rate. As you stop down the lens (set a higher aperture f value of like 11, 13, up to 32 on some lenses) you will get less light in over a specific period of time. Think of how much light can go through a pin hole compared to a hole the size of a quarter.

 

[Diana]

My suggestion to you would be very careful posting air-air pictures online unless both parties have formation flying training...I did and I was basically "forced" to remove them because I did not want to get the other pilot in trouble.

Thanks Chris. Point taken.

We weren't really that close; everything was taken with a zoom. My husband was flying the other airplane, and the photographer is a pilot, and safety was the number one rule with our flight.

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

My suggestion to you would be very careful posting air-air pictures online unless both parties have formation flying training...I did and I was basically "forced" to remove them because I did not want to get the other pilot in trouble.

Dont know about "training" but 91.111 (b) only refers to prior arrangement.




Sec. 91.111 - Operating near other aircraft.

(a) No person may operate an aircraft so close to another aircraft as to create a collision hazard.

(b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except by arrangement with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the formation.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for hire, in formation flight.

 

[Diana]

Not getting too technical the f-stop is the term used to describe the aperture setting of the lens you are using. The limits of the f-stop is a factor of the lens you are using (on dslr's and slr's). A "fast lens" will have a lower f value like 1.8, 2.0, 2.8. These lenses, normally more expensive, prime (non zoom), or both will gather light at a faster rate. As you stop down the lens (set a higher aperture f value of like 11, 13, up to 32 on some lenses) you will get less light in over a specific period of time. Think of how much light can go through a pin hole compared to a hole the size of a quarter.

OK, thanks for the information Chris. We got some more shots yesterday and he found the combination that made it work out better.

Do you think that digital pictures that are made from 35 mm film are as good as those taken with a digital camera?

 

[Iceman]

Ok here is an overall strategy when taking pictures from the air...

The plane is not an ideal location to take pictures because of obstructions (struts etc), engine vibration, turbulence, and glare/scratches/dirt from the windows.

First look over the plane taking the pictures. Find a clean window that has a clear view and plan on taking most of the pictures out of that window.

If the person taking the pictures has image stabilizing on their camera/lens tell them to turn it off as the engine vibration causes the IS to not work correctly.

Normally from the air you try to use the fastest aperture value available that gives the depth of field you need (keeping the entire object in focus). This works very well when taking air to ground shots because it gives you a faster shutter speed which will help with the bumps you will experience when flying.



The largest problem I find when taking pictures of prop planes from a non ideal (no tripod) environment is keeping the plane clear/sharp/in focus while keeping the shutter speed slow enough to blur the prop movement. Using a fast shutter speed stops the prop motion and makes the plane look like its just standing still.



What I do is use the fastest shutter speed I can (while retaining prop blur) and set my camera on multi shot mode (5 frames per second) and let it rip for about 5-10 shots. This way I will get a few that are perfect.



I would not worry about the time of day for these kinds of pictures (besides right before dusk is not the time to be flying close to another aircraft). Just make sure the sun is behind the aircraft taking the pictures and that the plane does not cast a shadow on the plane receiving the pictures.



Good luck and have FUN!!! If you want to fly up to Michigan I will go up with you and take some good pictures!

Edit: also hold the camera very close to the window to make sure the window scratches etc do not show

 

[Iceman]

OK, thanks for the information Chris. We got some more shots yesterday and he found the combination that made it work out better.

Do you think that digital pictures that are made from 35 mm film are as good as those taken with a digital camera?

I think any good photog can take good pictures with 35mm or digital. I do think that dslr's today give much more flexibility. For instance I can use a higher iso 800 or even 1600 and have very little grain/noise which gives me a lot of flexibility. I can also take hundreds of pictures and not worry about film cost. For instance I just got back from Alaska and took over 1000 pictures. I will probably save/print only 200-400 but they will all be really good. (less expensive and better results) Make sure he/she uses a good film scanner (not just a flatbed with an adapter) to turn the film to digital.

 

[poadeleted20]

Dont know about "training" but 91.111 (b) only refers to prior arrangement.

As an FFI-certified formation pilot and former military fighter flyer, I can tell you that "prior arrangement" alone isn't enough for safe formation flying. Things can go real sour real fast if all pilots involved don't know what they're doing. The worst part is just getting joined up, but even after that, if you aren't in the right place, a bad move by one plane can nail the other before the second pilot can react. I most strongly recommend that folks leave the piloting part of air-to-air photography to those trained for it. If you're interested in that sort of training (which you can do in a few days at at FFI-associated clinic), and you fly a light civilian (non-warbird) plane, read http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184315-1.html and contact Formation Flying Inc.'s Stu "Sturdy" McCurdy at the address in that article. Warbird pilots should contact FAST via their type club.