Phoenix East Aviation (seeking guidance)

[Richey]

Hello everyone,
I've lived in Sweden my whole life but I'm an US citizen and now I've decided to begin my education where I belong.

I've done some research about Phoenix East Aviation but most information I found was a little aged.
This is the program my focus is on: PEA website link

I need some perspective on the school from anyone that has something to share.

*What is the atmosphere like at the academy?
*Is it over populated?
*What is the FI to student ratio~?
*Are there any scholarships available in general?

But most of all what is your honest opinion about the school? If you don't want to share your opinion here with everyone I would really appreciate a PM.

I've had my eyes on PEA since they have a "partnership" with the Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University and from what I've understood my hours at PEA can be accredited to Embry if I decide to get a bachelors degree later on in life.

On a side note I'm also interested in California Flight Academy in San Diego so any pros and cons about this school aswell would be great!

 

[Rigged4Flight]

I had lunch a couple of months ago in Kandahar with a pilot from Arizona. When I told him that I was planning on taking flight training somewhere in AZ, he highly recommended Phoenix East. I have no details at all other than his recommendation.

I'm looking for details on Phoenix East as well.

 

[Richey]

Sounds promising, a pilot recommend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University to me and thats how I found this school.

I also got this response in a private message at another message board a few day ago:

The school is a very good school and has very high standards.
The school has a lot of students, but also has lot of instructors about 50, and lots of aeroplanse, about 30 SE and 7 ME.
The atomsphere is professional and relaxed, and very international.
Good Luck I 'm sure you'll have a great time out there.

I'm really just curious if anyone has something bad to say about Phoenix East.

 

[denverpilot]

The only two bad comments I've heard...

- It's expensive. But that's ER for ya.

- ER loves to put "ER" in their tail numbers. So there's often "1 Echo Romeo", "2 Echo Romeo", "3 Echo Romeo" etc... All in the pattern at the same time. It's a really dumb Marketing-driven idea out of a school that's usually strong on Safety. They should just order aircraft with random tail numbers.

The top one, is what it is. The bottom is a minor nit-pick.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

... huh. I could have sworn it was Phoenix East that I talked with the guy about, but reading Nate's reply and checking the web confirms my suspicion that my memory is not correct.

Not sure now what school the glowing report I got from the guy in Kandahar was about, - but it was not Phoenix East (unless they have a branch in Arizona).

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Puppy mill IMHO

Find a good freelance instructor and a good plane, save money and get a better education.

 

[denverpilot]

Puppy mill IMHO

Find a good freelance instructor and a good plane, save money and get a better education.

Easier said than done. I found that finding good Instructors isn't super-hard, but finding ones that could accommodate my nutty schedule was nigh-impossible.

Jesse offering to upset his life (well, kinda - he seems to enjoy it, but I was continually floored by his energy and ability to juggle two "jobs") and work his day job while flying every night in -10F weather in Nebraska until after midnight for days in a row, isn't exactly a common trend amongst CFIs.

Nor would I ever expect it to be. I appreciate what he did very much. He would also do back-to-back night flights and avoid early mornings for me, which is darn near impossible to find someone willing to do.

Without that, or using someplace like PIC (and Ron!) while taking similar time off, my IR wouldn't have happened.

In fact, if I'd gone the PIC route, I may have set it up to leave town to sequester myself AND the instructor in a hotel somewhere and pretended to be out of town, just to keep the "always online, always connected" problem of modern work from invading.

They don't mean harm and don't mean to call, but when you can say, "I'm in Nebraska, call X." instead of, "Give me a couple hours and I'll log in and take a look", it's way better in the IT world.

A significant number of good CFIs are also morning glories. I had one here in Denver who was tough, fair, etc... but his set aside time for advanced students was at 05:00 in the simulator and airplane. Frankly, it just never worked for me. I still enjoy flying with him and we chat regularly. I may set up an IPC with him sometime in their new RedBird... We'll see.

I'll fly half the night, no problem, but there was at least one session with the morning CFII where I showed up barely alive, half an hour late, and in no shape to fly even a simulator. I'm a fair guy and offered on the spot (after waking him up on the couch outside the sim lab) to pay him for the whole session that day on the spot, but also cancelled that morning's sim training. We never got our schedules in sync. I just don't do early mornings well.

So... Agreed that independent great CFIs are out there, but other circumstances also come into play.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

The only two bad comments I've heard...

- It's expensive. But that's ER for ya.

- ER loves to put "ER" in their tail numbers. So there's often "1 Echo Romeo", "2 Echo Romeo", "3 Echo Romeo" etc... All in the pattern at the same time. It's a really dumb Marketing-driven idea out of a school that's usually strong on Safety. They should just order aircraft with random tail numbers.

The top one, is what it is. The bottom is a minor nit-pick.

In Daytona approach airspace, they run with the callsign riddle and the 3 digits of the tailnumber.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Puppy mill IMHO

Find a good freelance instructor and a good plane, save money and get a better education.

+1

I attended PEA over 10 years ago.

The good thing about going to a school is that you will be getting an intense, every day flight experience with multiple instructors available. However, if you think about it, you can contact a good independent instructor and tell him that you want to fly every day and get the intense situation of a dedicated school. If you can find someone who likes the idea, you avoid some of the problems with a large school.

One advantage of a large school is that you have a better opportunity to change instructors if you don't click with your current instructor. They have more than one aircraft, so if one goes into maintenance you can still fly. PEA's instruction practices are satisfactory. Their rules are reasonable. It is relatively inexpensive. At Daytona, you get the experience of operating out of Class C as well as training at several untowered fields.

If you are a really structured person, you can go to a 141 school. I don't know whether PEA has a 141 school.

The disadvantages of a large school are that you are competing with other students for the time of your instructor and the availability of aircraft. You never know for sure which airplane will be available because with such intense training, the planes go into maintenance often or are already reserved for someone else. My experience was that I was forced to fly one or two days a week in the earliest slot when I was not really awake enough to do well.

Also, Daytona can be relied upon to have thunderstorms nearly every afternoon in the summertime, so you cannot really count on flying in the afternoon. On the other hand, you have the opportunity to get a motel room on the beach and consider it a vacation when you cannot fly.

Another disadvantage to large schools (puppy mills) is that nearly all of the instructors are recent graduates of the same school you are attending. They have just barely enough hours to teach and really no experience in the real world. They are not teaching because they love to teach, they are building time for a real job. An independent instructor is more likely to be teaching because he loves it. An independent instructor will probably be more expensive in the long run and probably a lot more experienced.

It is very probable that you will get a good education from PEA or ER. You will get the education that you demand. I had to go see the chief flight instructor several times before getting things straightened out.

 

[Richey]

It is very probable that you will get a good education from PEA or ER. You will get the education that you demand. I had to go see the chief flight instructor several times before getting things straightened out.

Thank you for the input! I don't think I'll go for an independent instructor. Mostly because I don't know a whole lot of people in the US and I would feel much safer coming to an organized school.

Also I would like earn the credits towards an AS/BS at ER. Might even consider going straight to ER however money is an issue there.

 

[Captain]

ER is a waist in time and money. An aviation degree is not helpful is landing a flying job. You're much better off to get a fall back degree in case your flying career doesn't go as planned.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Thank you for the input! I don't think I'll go for an independent instructor. Mostly because I don't know a whole lot of people in the US and I would feel much safer coming to an organized school.

Also I would like earn the credits towards an AS/BS at ER. Might even consider going straight to ER however money is an issue there.

You may not know a lot of great independent instructors, but by being here, a lot of great independent instructors know you. Just start a thread asking who will take you as a student and write what you want to learn and how you learn. Then see how many great instructors you suddenly find.

Alternatively, you might ask where we would suggest you get your AS/BS. My recommendation is Perdue. Don't have any idea of the cost.

However, as Captain has implied, a degree in aviation is just as helpful to you in a flying career as any other degree. So, we often advise young men to choose an education with the idea of leading toward their fall-back occupation.

 

[HerrGruyere]

One of the instructors at my school went to Phoenix East. He's really down to Earth and seems to like his profession.

I would recommend getting a degree in something that you might want to do on the side or as a full-time job while instructing on the side.

Flying with a freelance instructor might be more fun since you would have opportunities to go out and get lunch. I feel like that's half the fun of flight training.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

ER is a waist in time and money. An aviation degree is not helpful is landing a flying job. You're much better off to get a fall back degree in case your flying career doesn't go as planned.

I'd agree with the aviation degree not doing anything to land a flying job. I'd say that any college can be a waste of time and money. It's very easy to do nothing more than show up to class (maybe not), pass the classes you need and graduate. What you get out of college is really what you want to put into the process.

 

[HerrGruyere]

Very true. Many are just in and out. I learned a lot about myself in college and had many experiences that shaped me into who I am today.