Petaluma case raises questions about FAA policies on drunken pilots

Imagine the outcry if this idiot had crashed, causing fatalities on the ground. I'm glad this guy was pulled out of the air, but in these cases I think it should be one strike and you're out, not two.
 
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Should have revoked his license after the first incident. Glad this clown is not flying anymore.
 
ainokea said:
Should have revoked his license after the first incident. Glad this clown is not flying anymore.
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If he's willing to blatantly ignore the regulations he is alleged to have ignored, why would he care about the regulation that prohibits him from flying without a pilot certificate? :(
 
Palmpilot said:
If he's willing to blatantly ignore the regulations he is alleged to have ignored, why would he care about the regulation that prohibits him from flying without a pilot certificate? :(
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What regulation prevents people from flying without a license?
 
I'm not familiar with the details, but I hope he got due process. Wouldn't want every state trooper airman with a stick up his butt deciding he can play sky police.

From what I've read it does look like he's guilty and a dumbass. But every news article I've read that I've had any personal knowledge of has been so full of BS that I don't trust anything I read any more.
 
pericynthion said:
I'm not familiar with the details, but I hope he got due process. Wouldn't want every state trooper airman with a stick up his butt deciding he can play sky police.

From what I've read it does look like he's guilty and a dumbass. But every news article I've read that I've had any personal knowledge of has been so full of BS that I don't trust anything I read any more.
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I've had that same experience.
 
pericynthion said:
But every news article I've read that I've had any personal knowledge of has been so full of BS that I don't trust anything I read any more.
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Doubly so with the talking heads on the TV "news". All I know for certain when I see something on the news is that I don't really know what happened, and neither do they.
 
Hearing you tell me the story was great Kimberly. It adds so much more than just reading the articles.
 
Palmpilot said:
If he's willing to blatantly ignore the regulations he is alleged to have ignored, why would he care about the regulation that prohibits him from flying without a pilot certificate? :(
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It sounds like the airport manager might have something to say. I know my airport stays up to date with their pilots.
Or is that just me they ask?
 
silver-eagle said:
It sounds like the airport manager might have something to say. I know my airport stays up to date with their pilots.
Or is that just me they ask?
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There are other airports nearby. Whether they ask to see pilot certificates before renting space, I don't know. The only people who have ever asked to see my pilot certificate are rental operations, and the CAP (because I am a member).
 
Palmpilot said:
14 CFR 61.3 prohibits flying without a pilot certificate. From what I've heard, no regulation can prevent it. :eek:
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That's sorta my point in the question. I know of a guy at a local remote control airplane airstrip who built a helocoptor. The thing flies and he transitioned himself fron RC helo pilot to real life fly a human helo pilot. He has no pilot license...but what rule is he breaking?

Relating to this thread...FAA revokes your pilots license and you keep flying. What rule are you breaking?
 
Captain said:
That's sorta my point in the question. I know of a guy at a local remote control airplane airstrip who built a helocoptor. The thing flies and he transitioned himself fron RC helo pilot to real life fly a human helo pilot. He has no pilot license...but what rule is he breaking?
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I don't know. Is there such a thing as an ultralight helicopter?

Relating to this thread...FAA revokes your pilots license and you keep flying. What rule are you breaking?
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The one I just cited.
 
pericynthion said:
I'm not familiar with the details, but I hope he got due process. Wouldn't want every state trooper airman with a stick up his butt deciding he can play sky police.

From what I've read it does look like he's guilty and a dumbass. But every news article I've read that I've had any personal knowledge of has been so full of BS that I don't trust anything I read any more.
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Dude I know two people who PERSONALLY saw this.

Plus, later, he almost taxi'd head on to one of my friends, they said he was swerving and taxi'ing drunk (whatever that looks like).
 
CMTowner said:
Hearing you tell me the story was great Kimberly. It adds so much more than just reading the articles.
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And they quoted the man in the article (you didn't meet him but he owns my flying school). You met his daughter I think when we went inside?
 
I was just going to say the same thing. My first CFI called it "the drunken man taxi", said you could always tell the brand new students. Airplane wanders back and forth as the ailerons flap frantically... :)
 
Idiot. The guy obviously gets a buzz on and then decides to get a buzz on :D

No different from a fellow that gets drunk and can't seem to stop himself from getting behind the wheel of a car. If that is all the self-control he has, he has no business operating either an airplane or a car.
 
Palmpilot said:
If he's willing to blatantly ignore the regulations he is alleged to have ignored, why would he care about the regulation that prohibits him from flying without a pilot certificate? :(
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Exactly, no sweat. You get in way worse trouble for driving without a license.
 
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Henning said:
Exactly, no sweat. You get in way worse trouble for driving without a license.
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Here in the Sacramento area, they regularly give DUI citations to people on bicycles. There are apparently specific FUI (Flying under the Influence) laws in California:

http://www.southern-california-dui-defense.com/flying-under-influence.html

California flying under the influence laws can be found the California Public Utility Code, starting at section 21407.1. For the most part, they parallel CFR 91.17, except the penalties for a standard offense (a mandatory 30 days and potential 6 months in county jail) are much more limited. CFR 91.17 convictions can have sweeping penalties that can reach 15 years in federal prison and $250,000 in fines. Compared to California DUI laws, that's more severe than any charge except for California DUI murder.
 
John221us said:
Here in the Sacramento area, they regularly give DUI citations to people on bicycles. There are apparently specific FUI (Flying under the Influence) laws in California:

http://www.southern-california-dui-defense.com/flying-under-influence.html

California flying under the influence laws can be found the California Public Utility Code, starting at section 21407.1. For the most part, they parallel CFR 91.17, except the penalties for a standard offense (a mandatory 30 days and potential 6 months in county jail) are much more limited. CFR 91.17 convictions can have sweeping penalties that can reach 15 years in federal prison and $250,000 in fines. Compared to California DUI laws, that's more severe than any charge except for California DUI murder.
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How many private pilots are sitting in jail for 91.17 violations? How about airline pilots who have been caught drunk in the cockpit? I have no idea, but I'm guessing the first number is quite low if not 0, the second I'd expect at least a few, but I won't bet on it not being 0.
 
Henning said:
How many private pilots are sitting in jail for 91.17 violations? How about airline pilots who have been caught drunk in the cockpit? I have no idea, but I'm guessing the first number is quite low if not 0, the second I'd expect at least a few, but I won't bet on it not being 0.
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I would have to think these things are pretty rare, but a quick search turned up this guy who got 21 months (back in 2010). No PPL and FUI.

http://www.centralvalleybusinesstimes.com/stories/001/?ID=16248
 
John221us said:
I would have to think these things are pretty rare, but a quick search turned up this guy who got 21 months (back in 2010). No PPL and FUI.

http://www.centralvalleybusinesstimes.com/stories/001/?ID=16248
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My point, it takes a huge f-up of an individual to go to prison. This guy was WAAY beyond flying without a certificate Since 1988! Had he not been wasted, he would not have been caught or even suspected. You have to do a lot of stuff before you end up in prison over this.

In imposing the sentence, Judge Oliver Wanger found that Mr. McEnry was “a reckless pilot who engaged in a lot of illegal conduct for a lot of years”
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Henning said:
How many private pilots are sitting in jail for 91.17 violations? How about airline pilots who have been caught drunk in the cockpit? I have no idea, but I'm guessing the first number is quite low if not 0, the second I'd expect at least a few, but I won't bet on it not being 0.
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"On November 4, 2011, Aaron J. Cope of Norfolk, Virginia, was sentenced in U.S. District Court, Denver, Colorado, for operating a common carrier under the influence of alcohol. Mr. Cope was sentenced to serve six months imprisonment, six months home detention and two years of supervised release. In lieu of a fine, he was ordered to complete 120 hours of community service and pay a $100 special assessment."

http://www.oig.dot.gov/library-item/5665

Department of Transportation, Office of Inspector General has a web site displaying the mounted heads of their victorious hunts here:

http://www.oig.dot.gov/investigations
 
Henning said:
My point, it takes a huge f-up of an individual to go to prison. This guy was WAAY beyond flying without a certificate Since 1988! Had he not been wasted, he would not have been caught or even suspected. You have to do a lot of stuff before you end up in prison over this.
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Oh... I made my original post, because someone had commented that there wasn't a civil or state statute to prosecute someone who just hopped in a plane with no PPL and started flying. Yes, I agree, there is certainly a low level of enforcement capability.
 
John221us said:
Oh... I made my original post, because someone had commented that there wasn't a civil or state statute to prosecute someone who just hopped in a plane with no PPL and started flying. Yes, I agree, there is certainly a low level of enforcement capability.
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The mechanism is there, it just very rarely gets used, the only times I see it, there's a bunch of stuff involved and it's been going on for a long time.
 
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