Personal 9/11 remembrances

My sister was doing consulting work in Manhattan at the time. She canceled a September 11, 2001, 0930 meeting on the 91st floor of the south tower because it was her son's first day of pre-school.
 
I had left my apartment on the East side of Penn State's campus heading out to class on my bike. I arrived a few minutes early for the 9am start and was reading the campus paper and discussing some items with other friends and classmates. Then, in a very rushed and hurried voice, a grad student named Chris flung open the door and was still on his phone, " A plane just crashed into the World Trade Center!",... "Find a TV!"

Ironically, I'm a structural engineer, and was attending a graduate class on Fractures and Failures of Structures. We study deterioration of materails over time, failure loadings, etc.... and now it was a real life possibility, although none of us knew the damage.

A few seconds later, our instructor arrived and immediately cancelled class and told us to go and watch the TV, something terrible is happening,... We'll resume next week.

I peddled quickly back across campus,.. in the door of the apartment where my roomate (who is an Electrical engineer for building design) already had the TV on and tape in the VCR. Apparently along the ride back the second plane had hit the other tower. I remember sitting in the apartment for the next few hours watching and waiting for some form of information, as the other two planes crashed (PA and DC) and the information began to unroll.

My class was cancelled for two weeks, as some of the Architectural Engineering professors were involved in some way of the analysis or reconstruction of possible events. After it resumed, we discussed the event and possible design related elements that worked, or failed, and lessons learned for new building design. There is a FEMA book that summarizes the analysis of the buildings and the resulting information from the collapse, which I have a copy of, as a reminder of what is possible, and what can be learned.

Now I'm a P.E. in Building Structures, and the codes have been rewritten for different classes of facilities and events like blast design, blow out walls, impact loads, are being further developed and used for the more essential buldings (government, hospitals, etc)

Rob
 
I have one question, and I hope it won't descend into SZ territory. From all official accounts, the folks who died in Shanksville were first class heroes (or at least some of them were, and we'll never know who for short). I'm still puzzled why they weren't all given the Presidential Medal of Freedom, or whatever the civilian equivalent of the Congressional Medal of Honor is.
 
I have one question, and I hope it won't descend into SZ territory. From all official accounts, the folks who died in Shanksville were first class heroes (or at least some of them were, and we'll never know who for short). I'm still puzzled why they weren't all given the Presidential Medal of Freedom, or whatever the civilian equivalent of the Congressional Medal of Honor is.
That's a very good question. I agree: they deserve it.
 
There is a FEMA book that summarizes the analysis of the buildings and the resulting information from the collapse, which I have a copy of, as a reminder of what is possible, and what can be learned.

Rob,

I would love to borrow that book or even just get a supervised look at it. Sounds really intresting.

I heard some outcry right afterwards from laymen about the buildings had to have been built wrong for them to have collapsed. I always defended the design of the buildings and how long they managed to stand under the enormous strain. Nobody when the WTC was being designed ever imagned that someone would even consider doing what happened. The buildings withstood the impact and kept standing long enough for several thousand people to get out all of which owe their lives to the design of the building.

Missa
 
You can view the PDF of the FEMA book here...

http://www.fema.gov/rebuild/mat/wtcstudy.shtm

Chapter One recalls the day's events with diagrams and actual images of the complex and the flight paths of the planes, along with a code review of the building design requirements at the time of it's construction. Subsequent chapters evaluate various components of the tragedy broken down by each building involved.
 
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Rob probably knows this better than anyone here. The weaknesses of the towers, unknown at the time, were eventually discovered. Most of it surrounded the fire protection of the steel structure. The make up of that protection has changed dramatically and is now code in new construction.

I'd have to wonder if this weakness would have ever been discovered were it not for the attack. Then again, no building has ever been designed with expectation of what took place at the trade towers that day.

Likewise, I doubt engineers ever considered an airliner could be destroyed to the extent possible at the Pentagon, virtually making that airliner disappear with little evidence of it having been there.

One of the positive things that came from this attack is it inspired engineers and those choosing the profession to be better and do more for the benefit of all of us.
 
Here's my distinct memory of FEMA at the WTC site:


One had a camera and the other was posing in front of the pile in the distance.

So it's unlikely that he was "posing" next to the pile in order to have something of known height in the picture inorder to scale the picture durring later analysis. Huh?

It wasn't a tourist site, it was a tomb.

I brought no camera and took no pictures.

You were not there to document and analyize the building failure inorder to revise building codes so that the building designers of the future can build better safer structures and save countless millions of lives... But yea, what you were doing was ___SO___ much more important, because you saved so many more lives then they will by taking the pictures.

I'm not trying to disparage what you were doing, but you need not disparge what they were doing either because of your possibliy inaccurate perception.

Missa
 
So it's unlikely that he was "posing" next to the pile in order to have something of known height in the picture inorder to scale the picture durring later analysis. Huh?



You were not there to document and analyize the building failure inorder to revise building codes so that the building designers of the future can build better safer structures and save countless millions of lives... But yea, what you were doing was ___SO___ much more important, because you saved so many more lives then they will by taking the pictures.

I'm not trying to disparage what you were doing, but you need not disparge what they were doing either because of your possibliy inaccurate perception.

Missa

:) Thanks, Missa.
 
So it's unlikely that he was "posing" next to the pile in order to have something of known height in the picture inorder to scale the picture durring later analysis. Huh?



You were not there to document and analyize the building failure inorder to revise building codes so that the building designers of the future can build better safer structures and save countless millions of lives... But yea, what you were doing was ___SO___ much more important, because you saved so many more lives then they will by taking the pictures.

I'm not trying to disparage what you were doing, but you need not disparge what they were doing either because of your possibliy inaccurate perception.

Missa

Perhaps it was as you say. There was no way to know, that, however, given the pose in front of the PILE (no longer a structure) using a personal (small, cheap) camera.

You are right that our SAR efforts were pointless. And that will be a lifelong disappointment.
 
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Yeah, maybe.

But if that were the case, why pose in front of the PILE (no longer a structure) using a personal (small, cheap) digital camera.

Yeah, right -- all about analysis, I'm sure.

To analize where and how the peices fell using whatever camera you have avialable before the recovery (not rescue) personal move it all. I stand or have the intern stand in the photo frame because I know what his hight is, therefore I can measure his height in the photo and use it as a scale.

(ok that's one and a half timmey's so about 9 feet)

Missa
 
To analize where and how the peices fell using whatever camera you have avialable before the recovery (not rescue) personal move it all. I stand or have the intern stand in the photo frame because I know what his hight is, therefore I can measure his height in the photo and use it as a scale.

(ok that's one and a half timmey's so about 9 feet)

Missa

I edited my initial response as it was harsh, but so was yours.

As far as "importance" and "saving lives," we found none alive.
 
I edited my initial response as it was harsh, but so was yours.

Her response was to your statement which was an assumption out of ignorance. You were/are in no position to make presumptions regarding what they were doing, which you were/are.

Perhaps consider that more likely than not, if someone is in a place doing something, chances are there's a reason, and a good one at that. Nobody (least of all me) would ever suggest that the search and rescue efforts, albeit mostly unsuccessful, were of monumental importance. However, how often do engineers get a real-world exhibition of a structural collapse of that magnitude? Documenting such things (and sometimes small, cheap digital cameras are all you have to document something) is of similar importance towards the future - unless you do not find a desire to further improve building structures, which could have potentially reduced the effects of what happened that day, to be of any significance or importance.

For the record, on September 12th, 2001, I wanted to go help. I was turned away, I can't figure out how you got down there. It's not like there was any shortage of volunteers. The volunteer list was so high that they were turning away countless people. I'm surprised that you were able to get in, but I suppose someone has to get admitted. Since I was turned away, I instead took my camera and documented what I could. On the 12th I could only get down to Houston St., but later I was able to get down actually to the area and get more pictures, seeing the area that looked like a war zone. Taking pictures for the purpose of posterity I believe is important, lest we forget the lessons we should have learned.

As far as "importance" and "saving lives," we found none alive.

That is most unfortunate, seeing as some of those you didn't find were some people who I would have hoped you had.

I stay out of these threads intentionally as a rule. We all feel the way we feel, but inevitably some self-righteous person comes in and talks down to others for whatever reason. This thread is no exception, and multiple people are guilty of this so far on various fronts. I make my points at the risk of sounding like one of them. There were tens of thousands of people working from all different fronts in the hours, days, and weeks that followed, really probably millions. None of us, especially me (as someone who was there), are in a position to question someone else's emotions or question the validity of what someone else was doing at that time. Anyone who was there knows just how much chaos there was, and the fact that decisions that couldn't be easily made with 100% of the information had to be made with 1% of the information, and in the blink of an eye. Human judgement being what it is, there were surely mistakes, but there was also great heroism on the part of many.

Honestly, if you don't think it was a big deal, then go away and leave the rest of us alone. You are entitled to your opinion, but not to tell us what ours should be.

If you do think it was a big deal but only want to promote your own self-righteous efforts, then go away and leave the rest of us alone. We have all done selfless things in the hope that we can help others. Yes, you deserve a thank you, but bear in mind some similar words from a book that's got some good advice (to the best that I can recall to quote it): "When you give alms, do not be like the hypocrites, who go the temple so that all may see. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing and your father, who is in secret, will reward you."

This is why I remember the day by myself, I just don't want to deal with anybody else's crap. I'm outta here (again).
 
Her response was to your statement which was an assumption out of ignorance. You were/are in no position to make presumptions regarding what they were doing, which you were/are.

Perhaps consider that more likely than not, if someone is in a place doing something, chances are there's a reason, and a good one at that. Nobody (least of all me) would ever suggest that the search and rescue efforts, albeit mostly unsuccessful, were of monumental importance. However, how often do engineers get a real-world exhibition of a structural collapse of that magnitude? Documenting such things (and sometimes small, cheap digital cameras are all you have to document something) is of similar importance towards the future - unless you do not find a desire to further improve building structures, which could have potentially reduced the effects of what happened that day, to be of any significance or importance.

For the record, on September 12th, 2001, I wanted to go help. I was turned away, I can't figure out how you got down there. It's not like there was any shortage of volunteers. The volunteer list was so high that they were turning away countless people. I'm surprised that you were able to get in, but I suppose someone has to get admitted. Since I was turned away, I instead took my camera and documented what I could. On the 12th I could only get down to Houston St., but later I was able to get down actually to the area and get more pictures, seeing the area that looked like a war zone. Taking pictures for the purpose of posterity I believe is important, lest we forget the lessons we should have learned.



That is most unfortunate, seeing as some of those you didn't find were some people who I would have hoped you had.

I stay out of these threads intentionally as a rule. We all feel the way we feel, but inevitably some self-righteous person comes in and talks down to others for whatever reason. This thread is no exception, and multiple people are guilty of this so far on various fronts. I make my points at the risk of sounding like one of them. There were tens of thousands of people working from all different fronts in the hours, days, and weeks that followed, really probably millions. None of us, especially me (as someone who was there), are in a position to question someone else's emotions or question the validity of what someone else was doing at that time. Anyone who was there knows just how much chaos there was, and the fact that decisions that couldn't be easily made with 100% of the information had to be made with 1% of the information, and in the blink of an eye. Human judgement being what it is, there were surely mistakes, but there was also great heroism on the part of many.

Honestly, if you don't think it was a big deal, then go away and leave the rest of us alone. You are entitled to your opinion, but not to tell us what ours should be.

If you do think it was a big deal but only want to promote your own self-righteous efforts, then go away and leave the rest of us alone. We have all done selfless things in the hope that we can help others. Yes, you deserve a thank you, but bear in mind some similar words from a book that's got some good advice (to the best that I can recall to quote it): "When you give alms, do not be like the hypocrites, who go the temple so that all may see. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing and your father, who is in secret, will reward you."

This is why I remember the day by myself, I just don't want to deal with anybody else's crap. I'm outta here (again).

Thanks for the long diatribe, but I said she may have been right.

How I got in there? I was an Army Officer accompanied by his NY firefighter brother, that's how.
 
Her response was to your statement which was an assumption out of ignorance. You were/are in no position to make presumptions regarding what they were doing, which you were/are.

Wait a second, he was THERE, so he has much more information to judge with than we do. Obviously what he saw upset him, and what he told us wasn't even 1% of the total context of the incident - so let's give the man on the scene the benefit of the doubt, rather than behave like he WAS mistaken. He may have been mistaken, sure, but nobody except the two FEMA guys can state he WAS mistaken with any authority. so if anyone was speaking from a position of ignorance about this particular incident, Missa was. (OK, count to ten and keep reading, please)

I've been at many disaster scenes in my life, and I've seen rescuers and emergency people behaving badly at all of them. Sometimes it's a result of the stress, sometimes it's new people coming in and not being respectful of the "culture" that has already sprung up and taken root. I've seen folks doing EXACTLY what Dan described, and upon follow up it was for EXACTLY the motives he attributed to them - to have an "I was there snapshot". That's not necessarily evil, either, - someone may have wanted it so that his kids would never forget. Somewhere I've got a shot of the ER team I was on after the big quakes in SanFran in 1989. It was a horrible time, but it was a GREAT team, and I treasure the memories.

So, Missa may well be correct, but she was truly guessing at alternate motives for the behavior. Dan, on he other hand, was THERE, so I wish he'd been given a little more credence.
 
My sister was doing consulting work in Manhattan at the time. She canceled a September 11, 2001, 0930 meeting on the 91st floor of the south tower because it was her son's first day of pre-school.
Even have lived the previous 30 years in a rural town on the west coast I personally knew 3 people who should had been in the towers but for various reasons were not. I wonder if your sister and one of the people I know knew each other.


September 11th is my little brother's birthday. Sadly I will never think the same of "his" day.

Yes, a lot of us were affected....
 
I was in a meeting of the Board of Directors for my Rotary Club, and peoples' cellphones started ringing; we all shut them off (it was a meeting, you know). It was when I was driving to the office that I heard about the first hit; and the second one happened while I drove.

Got to the office and tried to follow what was happening on the 'Net, spotty because so many servers were overloaded.

Called my sister in Australia (woke her up), told her to turn on the TV and watch history being made; she thought I was making a stupid hoax, until my niece called out to her, "Oh no, Mum, they're on fire!" after turning on the television.

Called a friend at SWA who told me that all of their planes were accounted-for and safe, and was amazed at how quiet it was with no planes taking off from Love (my office is right under the departure path for the 13 runways).

Got a call from a radio reporter I know in the UK, he interviewed me (was told I was heard there...).

Wondered, what comes next.

Friend was in Jersey on business- told me that he and colleague stood there looking across the water at the smoke pouring from ground zero, and then, somewhere around noon, they looked at each other and said, "We'd better get started driving home." Two days driving to Dallas in a rented Escort (they just trusted that Hertz would allow it, and they did).
 
Aside from the shock of the event itself, I think my most memorable experience was flying blood samples to Red Cross labs on 9/12/2001, (seven years ago today) and again later in the week. The pilot in command of the first flight wrote up the experience:

http://sq10.cawg.cap.gov/library/flying_dayafter.php

Here is my own somewhat briefer account (and my apologies to those who have already seen this on the red board):

I felt fortunate to have the opportunity to help out in the emergency in a small way.

On Tuesday, California Wing of the Civil Air Patrol put out an alert asking that two aircrew members be stationed with each CAP aircraft, preflighted and ready to go at a moment's notice. I wasn't expecting to be assigned a mission, but I was happy to do whatever I could to help, even if it was just sitting around being ready.

On Wednesday this was changed to being on one-hour call from home. I was surprised when I got the call late Wednesday morning indicating that we had been assigned a mission. The Red Cross needed six boxes of blood samples flown from Oakland to Portland.

Following the procedures in the NOTAM, we were assigned a squawk ahead of time and departed Palo Alto for Oakland a little after 2pm. We had been instructed to file IFR all the way, so that's what we did. It turned out to be seven boxes of blood, not six, but we managed to get all seven stuffed in the back of the Cessna 182.

It was really spooky flying with so little other traffic around. Most of the time there was only one other aircraft in the same ATC sector with us, usually law enforcement, fire fighting, or military. One fire fighting airplane reported an engine failure, and diverted to a field where they had a mechanic. We didn't see any aircraft at all during the daylight portion of the trip.

The flight up to Portland was pretty uneventful. Of course, it's quite a long flight in a 182, just a little over four hours in our case. We arrived at Portland International around 8pm, just after dark, and a van was waiting to pick up the cargo.

The FBO has a refrigerated vending machine, so we took advantage of the opportrunity to have sandwiches while our plane was being refueled. Then we departed for home.

On the way out of PDX, we noticed that every airline gate was full. Not surprising, of course, but an unusual sight.

On the way home, since it was at night, we were able to see one aircraft that took off from Eugene Airport in central Oregon, something like 50 miles ahead of us. It was moving *really* fast, and climbing *really* fast. It climbed to something like twice our altitude, going in the direction we had come from. Keeping an eye on us, perhaps?

On one ATC frequency, the controller was working an emergency. We couldn't figure out exactly what the nature of the emergency was, but he was talking about one of the aircraft needing a cable on landing, which we took to mean an arrestor cable, so perhaps there was something wrong with the aircraft's brakes or thrust reverser.

At one point we tried picking up various DME sites, and found that, due to the absence of traffic, we could get a response from them as far as 125 nm away!
 
Last summer while flying past Lemoore NAS I watched and listened from my lofty perch at 9,500 msl an emergency in progress. An F-18 had a flame out at FL220 with live ordnance. They stretched the cables and raised the nets for him.
 
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