PC 12 Pilot training

Thomas Dietrich

Thomas Dietrich

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Messages
18
Location
Stuttgart Germany
Display Name
Display name:
Snowbird
Hi I am new to this forum. Have lots of single & mulit engine turbine & piston time incl short field ops. Does anyone here has experience with the PC 12 on short strips?
 
funny-to-me story:

early on in training I'm hanging out at the picnic table at my 2,800' field. parked right out in front is a sweet Pilatus. I say to one of the local guys "man, I can't believe that thing flew in HERE!". he gives me a nasty look and starts ripping into me, something like "oh yeah? why not, because we're just some backwoods, redneck, yokel airstrip??!!??" as calmly as I could, I just replied "um, no dude, because of the size of the runway". the look on his face was classic, and he's been nice to me ever since lol. but yeah, the strip is 2,800 x 40 and not easy to get in/out of. I questioned the pilot about it, and again I was pretty new at the time, and he said it's no different, you just have to nail your speeds perfectly.
 
Ok got it figured out , much much better with the MT prop than the Hartzell, Hers the PC 12 on our strip in Italy:
Its hard to beat. The Platus test pilot refused to make a demo there. Enjoy
 
Ah that field looks really familiar, if I'm not mistaken there's a turbine powered aerobatic plane that was being sold that's based in that field as well right?

1508916861462246215.gif
 
No the above plane is Pocket Rocket a highly modified, reinforced and clipped Impulse 100 with an Allison B15G Turbine and it was nerver up for sale. Took me more than 10 yewars to build it. Shes ma baby. Took her to Mach =.56 already, not too bad for a fixed gear.
 
Thomas Dietrich said:
Hi I am new to this forum. Have lots of single & mulit engine turbine & piston time incl short field ops. Does anyone here has experience with the PC 12 on short strips?
Click to expand...

I'm flying a /45, 1180 at 3k MSL, that's going to be a little sporty.

image.jpg
 
Thomas Dietrich said:
No the above plane is Pocket Rocket a highly modified, reinforced and clipped Impulse 100 with an Allison B15G Turbine and it was nerver up for sale. Took me more than 10 yewars to build it. Shes ma baby. Took her to Mach =.56 already, not too bad for a fixed gear.
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Awesome, what a small world, must have just been an article posted up about it. Just saved the pic as I thought its as badass.

We need more pics of everything! :D
 
James331 said:
I'm flying a /45, 1180 at 3k MSL, that's going to be a little sporty.

image.jpg
Click to expand...
Thanks James,

the calculator is for our runway useless. As you see I ve got at least 50 runway left, which will account for a 15 KTs tailwind. The MT prop is another world.
 
Maciej said:
Awesome, what a small world, must have just been an article posted up about it. Just saved the pic as I thought its as badass.

We need more pics of everything! :D
Click to expand...
Maciej,

there are some Pocket Rocket Vids on Youtube. And there are some about Locher airfield or Sarentino with the SIAI Sm1019 Turbine Bird dog and K100 Kodiak as well.

https://youtu.be/CrWJVKHwVso

Enjoy!
 
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Thomas:

Sorry I missed these before - Welcome to Pilots of America.

For your fleet and facilities, I might consider we should re-brand, Pilots in America Wishing They Were in Italy With a Bad-Ass German Pilot!

Mercy. That Pocket Rocket is comprised completely of Awsome. Ausgezeichnet!
 
Thomas Dietrich said:
Thanks James,

the calculator is for our runway useless. As you see I ve got at least 50 runway left, which will account for a 15 KTs tailwind. The MT prop is another world.
Click to expand...

If it's your plane and if your pax are cool with it and understand the margins, fine, according to hartzell you're only taking off in 50' less.

Better Performance
Thanks to the five-blade Hartzell propeller, the 2016 PC-12 NG cruises five kts faster, climbs to a cruise altitude of 28,000 ft 10 percent quicker, and has a 50-foot reduction in total takeoff distance. Its highly swept airfoil reduces flyover and cabin noise and its blades are certified for unlimited life.
Click to expand...
http://hartzellprop.com/hartzell-introduces-5-blade-carbon-fiber-propellers-for-pc-12-fleet/


Here is the distance for just a 170lb pilot and 500lbs of fuel

image.jpg


So 1180' strip, and this doesn't even factor that is grass not hard surface, even with that 5 blade you're still not going to match these numbers on grass, guess if you're going down hill into a headwind that could help. I know you can make the plane preform outside of the book if you have the skill and the need and nothing goes wrong.



1180' of grass is not a strip our company would take one of ours into, especially with the load we fly with, cool video though
 
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James331 said:
If it's your plane and if your pax are cool with it and understand the margins, fine, according to hartzell you're only taking off in 50' less.


http://hartzellprop.com/hartzell-introduces-5-blade-carbon-fiber-propellers-for-pc-12-fleet/


Here is the distance for just a 170lb pilot and 500lbs of fuel

image.jpg


So 1180' strip, and this doesn't even factor that is grass not hard surface, even with that 5 blade you're still not going to match these numbers on grass, guess if you're going down hill into a headwind that could help. I know you can make the plane preform outside of the book if you have the skill and the need and nothing goes wrong.



1180' of grass is not a strip our company would take one of ours into, especially with the load we fly with, cool video though
Click to expand...
Off topic, but what app are you using to get those numbers?
 
James331 said:
If it's your plane and if your pax are cool with it and understand the margins, fine, according to hartzell you're only taking off in 50' less.


http://hartzellprop.com/hartzell-introduces-5-blade-carbon-fiber-propellers-for-pc-12-fleet/


Here is the distance for just a 170lb pilot and 500lbs of fuel

image.jpg


So 1180' strip, and this doesn't even factor that is grass not hard surface, even with that 5 blade you're still not going to match these numbers on grass, guess if you're going down hill into a headwind that could help. I know you can make the plane preform outside of the book if you have the skill and the need and nothing goes wrong.



1180' of grass is not a strip our company would take one of ours into, especially with the load we fly with, cool video though
Click to expand...

Yesterday from Sarentino to Bibione with 10 POB and 2 ebikes and 8 regular bikes on board, 1400 lbs fuel on takeoff, rotated before the driveway xing 2 KTS tailwind.
 
Welcome to PoA. Loved the pocket-rocket as soon as I saw it, love everything about the PC12. Very excited to see the PC24s flying around.
 
Thomas Dietrich said:
Yesterday from Sarentino to Bibione with 10 POB and 2 ebikes and 8 regular bikes on board, 1400 lbs fuel on takeoff, rotated before the driveway xing 2 KTS tailwind.
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It seems like you have a ton more experience than I, but doesn't taking off very far outside the book limitations for an aircraft with 10 people on board at the very least represent a "hazardous attitude"?

I don't want to start a whole war but isn't this the exact behavior we criticize when their is an accident?

Or maybe I am missing something?
 
Thomas Dietrich said:
Yesterday from Sarentino to Bibione with 10 POB and 2 ebikes and 8 regular bikes on board, 1400 lbs fuel on takeoff, rotated before the driveway xing 2 KTS tailwind.
Click to expand...

Ether you're exaggerating how short the field is, or you're a damn fool.

I have no problem with the former, or the later, just be sure to let your pax know that you're such a great pilot that you're opting to operate the plane beyond it's manufactors published safe capabilities, and in a manner in which professional pilots would not operate it, if they get on with eyes wide open to that so be it, just don't abuse the trust your pax have in you.




No idea the distance between the start of your takeoff roll and this driveway..

Presuming a average body weight of 150lbs, 1400lbs of fuel, and 2 ebikes at 30lbs, 8 normal bikes at 17lbs, say 200lbs of bikes.

image.jpg
 
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Whoa, now; where does "starts with a big downhill boost" factor in? The plane sure seems to get off quick, sort of a grassy Courchevel.
 
I went back to the airstrip numbers. The Rwy is Is one way no GA option for the last mile. Exept for the SM1019 or Pocket Rocket. RYW begins at 2500ft climbing to 2600ft at the driveway, distance 610ft. Then continues up to from 2600 to 2640 for 100ft distance. Usable for takeoff and landing. Then steepening from 2640 to 2720 on a distance of 300ft. Then continues almost flat for 200ft to 2728ft

Total length 1210ft total delta Alt 228ft with various inclinations. Unlike Courchevel we do not have a free approach and departure and we do not have the Skijump like Courchevel, which schould not be used, untill you know what your doing.
If the ski jump at Courchevel is used on takeoff, the plane needs to be pushed immediatly after the jump into a .8 to .9 G situation to get the minimum control speed down. Not an option in Sarentino, plane needs to get pos ROC asap to clear the cables.

On the flight to Bibione the PC12 was at Max takeoff mass. We always use 30 flaps for takeoff. How often do you PC12 jockeys use 30 Flaps? And regardless where we land, we are both trying do do spot landings at all times which means to touch down within 30 ft of a predetermined point.

There used to be a Altisurface ( place in the mountains to land ) in France called Lac Furchu. it was at 6500ft with a slope of 65% being only 420 ft longand a parking area on top for 2-3 Huskys or Cubs. I used to fly the Husky in there very often, but also did not land many times due to unfavourable conditions. In one year there were 3 accidents and the airstrip got closed. All the pilots involved in the accidents had no clue what they were doing.Bummer.

Here a pic of Lac Furchu
Camping.JPG

Fort those interested where Lac Furchu is, here are the Coordinates; N 45° 03´26,51" E 005° 56´02,5"
 
Well regardless, the videos are impressive for sure. I cannot comment on the PC 12.... yet ;)
 
For the record, I said I wouldn't do it, not couldn't do it.

The slope changes things. That wasn't presented in the original question, which really wasn't a question, but a set up for an opportunity to brag. Having seen the video, sure I'd give it a go, but not with 10 people on board. Just more risk than I'm willing to accept.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and toss the troll card on this one guys.

Also if the OP is such a hot shot PC12 driver, how come he doesnt even know what speeds to use in the aircraft or how the AOA should read (as seen in post 4)?
 
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James331 said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and toss the troll card on this one guys.

Also if the OP is such a hot shot PC12 driver, how come he doesnt even know what speeds to use in the aircraft or how the AOA should read (as seen in post 4)?
Click to expand...

Well our PC12 time is not high, so why not ask how others fly theirs? I am very well aware of what airspeed and AOA means. When we go the PC12 it had the Hartzell prop on it adjusted in a way that it was not even on the wishlist to land at Sarentino. Now with the MT its another stroy.
 
Thomas Dietrich said:
Well our PC12 time is not high, so why not ask how others fly theirs? I am very well aware of what airspeed and AOA means. When we go the PC12 it had the Hartzell prop on it adjusted in a way that it was not even on the wishlist to land at Sarentino. Now with the MT its another stroy.
Click to expand...

The 5 blade, even according to MT who is in the prop $elling business, they stated it only change your performance by a 50' difference, if your go or no go is based on 50'...


I didn't say you didn't at least have a rote understanding of what VY or AOA is,

I said if you're stating that you fly to the edge and even past the published limits of the PC12, so how on earth do you not even know your climb speeds?

You say your time is limited on the 12, but even with low time in the plane you're able to operate beyond the numbers of even the POH, all while not even knowing your climb speeds? Hot damn! Chuck Yeager would even be jealous.

This is all stuff which would have been covered before you ever PICed the thing, let alone taking it into a strip which a few working PC12 drivers have told you they wouldn't even touch, a strip you said even the factory demo pilots wouldn't touch.


I fly by the book numbers, VY is VY, VX is VX, vref is calculated just the same, heck there's even a Pilatus app that'll tell you this stuff.


You come on here to brag about taking this PC12, which you claim you fly, into these short strips, loaded with pax and cargo, as a PC12 driver I find your claims far fetched at best, reckless at worst. I do not think you impressed anyone here, and I seriously doubt you ever acted as sole pilot on a PC12.


On the PC12, how many keyed exterior locks are there on the plane? What position are they in (vertical or horizontal) when the plane is locked?

What else is stored in the battery compartment, on the right side of the battery?

In the battery compartment what is the LCD screen for?

On the netting in the battery compartment how many grommets are there?

What potiential CAWS warning will you get if you pull the power all the way back in a long decent in the series 10 /45?


I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you approached this thing all wrong man, everyone on here loves to talk aviation, that is why we are all here, just don't BS us, or try to brag about ether doing stuff you never have done, or about being a reckless pilot.
 
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Ohhhh you just got schooled son! :eek:
 
Really?

Sounds legit to me.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Great, now I have to count grommets when I fly next, I knew all the other answers. :)
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Lol, I'd don't know the grommets ether, but I can just to walk over to the hangar pop my head in and look ;)
 
There's an LCD screen in the battery comparment?!?! That's like... the coolest thing ever!
 
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