PBY Search

jkgoblue

jkgoblue

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Sep 16, 2008
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Sands Point, NY
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John K.
So I thought I'd put this out there in the hopes that there are some people who can help me find out if this plane is still around.

As a kid, I had the pleasure of riding in a PBY down in the Bahamas that was owned by a group of businessmen, one of which was Willard Rockwell, Chairman of Rockwell International. He and my father were good friends and business associates. I was lucky enough to sit in the engineers station in the wing during a landing and explore the plane during a few flights. Had I known how special it was I would of asked someone to take some pictures but unfortunately, none exist.

I always wondered what happened to that plane. It was a unique PBY as it was set up as a fisherman's plane, with two aluminum skiffs under each wing that could be lowered into the water and the inside was decked out for comfort with couches and tables.

I finally hit something with Google. An article in Flying magazine from September of 1967. Sure enough, there's a picture of the plane! But I can't make out any N number or any other notes in the article that might lead me to it's ultimate fate.

I know it's a long shot but perhaps someone out there remembers this plane? I've check some of the web sites with PBY survivors but can't find any history behind them. I'm not optimistic that it's still around but who knows.

Just one of those childhood memories that I wish I could relive...

https://books.google.com/books?id=8...v=onepage&q=catalina willard rockwell&f=false

Screen Shot 2016-02-25 at 10.07.28 AM.png
 
Well, a couple of clues.

1. The airplane has a squared-off vertical stabilizer and rudder.
2. The airplane has large spinners, not typical of a stock PBY
3. The airplane has large intakes atop the cowlings, again, not typical of a stock PBY. #2 and #3 together indicate, maybe, an upgraded engine.

N31235 seems to also have these features:
32.jpg

Don't know if these were a set of standardized mods one could do to a Catalina, but pictures of planes with all three features aren't very common. It's hard to tell, but there might be some features on the bottom of the wings that are the leftover boat attachment points.

N31235 is currently restored (albeit still with the cropped tail and upgraded engines) at the Palm Springs Air Museum. You could go there and pretend it's it. :)

Ron Wanttaja
 
I have a friend who is an expert in large seaplanes, and has owned a couple of PBYs himself. I've sent him an e-mail to see if he might have some information on this. I'll let you know what he says.
 
You know Ron, that might just be the plane! According to the article, they changed the original P&W 1830 engines with Wright R-2600's but there's something else quite unique about my boyhood plane. If you look in the picture, there is a rear gangway which I don't thing was common on Catalina's. Maybe it was a mod added for civilian use but I don't see them in any photos of other Cats.Screen Shot 2016-02-25 at 3.18.01 PM.png Searching other photos of N31235, here's one and it shows the gangway deployed, just like in the old photo! Then there's the side door too. Wow.

Jeff, I hope you find out more from your friend. That would be really interesting to know this planes history.

Thanks. Unbelievable work!
 
The "Super Cat" conversion was done to a number of PBY's, mainly for firefighting. Tail, engines and nose were the tell tale signs.
 
I just heard back from Ernie. He said:

"It looks like the one that was owned by Herb Shriner. I believe he was a comic. The last time I saw the airplane it was in fort Lauderdale FL for sale. Herb passed away a very long time ago. A group did buy in and I don't know what happened to it. There was another one owned by John Dore who passed away while flying it back from Canada with a group of fishermen, and his young son was able to land the airplane safely.

"The boats under the wing were done by Steward Davis Company here in Long Beach. The owner of the company was Herb Steward.

"Without the N number or serial no. it would be pretty hard to track. I tried to look for one with same paint job. Herb died in 1970 and the plane was in Florida.

"You might ask your friend what year did he fly in the PBY if he knows or make a good guess."​

I certainly do remember Herb Shriner's comedy. Actor Wil Shriner is his son. After reading Ernie's note, I looked up Herb Shriner on Wikipedia. Interestingly, Herb's mother's maiden name was Edith Rockwell. I wonder if Willard ("Al") Rockwell was a relative.
 
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Thanks Jeff. Your friend sounds like he knows a lot about Cats.

My best guess on the year when I was in the plane would be '69 - '71. I wish I had more information on it. If I remember it was an aqua blue and gray. Mr. Rockwell died years ago ('92) and if I remember his son Kent was flying the plane. We knew most all of the family members and my parents got Christmas cards every year from them. Don't remember any Edith though.

I'm searching all of the Stewart Davis Super Cats made but can't find a complete list. I don't think there were that many and a look at the surviving Cats, I can't tell which are SD Super Cats either.

Google is great and there is still much to search.
 
Pretty sure I just found it. Sank in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Monaco back in 1972. N19Q was the tail number. N19Q.jpg
 
99.9% sure that's it, because of the pelican. Monsanto added that when they owned it. Found an old color photo, too.
n19q.jpeg
 
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OMG! Unbelievable. That's it. Where did you find that color picture?? That's the color I remember....

Sad to hear that it's gone. I would have loved to see it again and crawl up into the engineer's position one more time.

Thanks for helping me out everyone. Silly to say but really means a lot to me. I'm getting so nostalgic as I get older...
 
Good going KTUP, I did some digging myself and came up blank!
 
jkgoblue said:
OMG! Unbelievable. That's it. Where did you find that color picture?? That's the color I remember....

Sad to hear that it's gone. I would have loved to see it again and crawl up into the engineer's position one more time.

Thanks for helping me out everyone. Silly to say but really means a lot to me. I'm getting so nostalgic as I get older...
Click to expand...
Searched something on google and it came up. Tried a lot of things, so I can't remember exactly lol. Here's some history on it http://aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeDossier.php?Serial=36041
 
jkgoblue said:
I would have loved to see it again and crawl up into the engineer's position one more time.

Silly to say but really means a lot to me. I'm getting so nostalgic as I get older...
Click to expand...

Hey you can start a GoFund and recover her! Maybe Kanye will kick in too! :D

We're all are getting nostalgic as we get older! Thankfully the internet makes it worse! ;)
 
My "google foo!"

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...ft/articles/2015-08-careless-loss-of-pby-n85u

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34490&start=10

1135464.jpg


EDIT: Whoops........a few minutes late!!!!
""""
The Chairman of Monsanto Chemicals arrived on their 'executive transport' Consolidated Canso, N5804N. On 13th July the Canso (Catalina) arrived from Edinburgh/Turnhouse and departed for the next day on a very short hop across to Hooton Park. It is thought that Monsanto Chemicals had business at Stanlow Refinery. This was a long, long time before the name Monsanto became inextricably linked with GM food development.

The aircraft later became N19Q and under the ownership of actor James Stewart came to grief off Monte Carlo whilst landing on the sea on sank en route from Marseille to Malaga 8.72."""""
 
It shouldn't be hard to locate and few scuba lessons and you could sit in the engineers seat again.
 
Through some of the links posted above, some sad photos..

Screen Shot 2016-02-26 at 11.29.55 AM.png

Screenshot 2016-02-26 11.37.58.png

There's some confusion as to the final owner, James Stewart, who was on the plane with his wife and a friend when it crashed. It seems it was not the famous actor, but an "industrialist native from Minnesota"
 
One thing I learned working at NASA is there is no up in space and they use water to simulate it.
 
kgruber said:
My "google foo!"

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...ft/articles/2015-08-careless-loss-of-pby-n85u

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34490&start=10

EDIT: Whoops........a few minutes late!!!!
""""
The Chairman of Monsanto Chemicals arrived on their 'executive transport' Consolidated Canso, N5804N. On 13th July the Canso (Catalina) arrived from Edinburgh/Turnhouse and departed for the next day on a very short hop across to Hooton Park. It is thought that Monsanto Chemicals had business at Stanlow Refinery. This was a long, long time before the name Monsanto became inextricably linked with GM food development.

The aircraft later became N19Q and under the ownership of actor James Stewart came to grief off Monte Carlo whilst landing on the sea on sank en route from Marseille to Malaga 8.72."""""
Click to expand...


Interesting. It seems odd that they would remove the blisters and then add them back later...
 
Different airplanes posted up there...
 
A little bondo and speed tape, and good to go...
 
I see what you mean. I believe then the confusion came in the suggestion that it was changed twice. While it appears to have been converted with the larger Wright engines and fuselage blisters, and changed over to N19Q, I don't see any data suggesting it was somehow transformed back again, and it seems highly unlikely that amount of work would be undone.
 
ktup-flyer said:
Pretty sure I just found it. Sank in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Monaco back in 1972. N19Q was the tail number. View attachment 44165
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure that is the plane I rode in somewhere in the mid 1960s; owned then by Monsanto, used by Edgar (Monsanto) Queeney for fishing trips, I was told. Really posh inside, and definitely had the back stair entry. My dad was a Chemstrand exec working in NYC offices (textile, plastics div Monsanto, and that cadre seemed fairly regular flyers. I think the thing was at the marine terminal in NY..we flew around for a while, and I sat in the blister...what a day. I was 10. Monsanto also had a DC3 that was kitted out, and we got rides on it occaisonally. Last ride on a Monsanto craft was a G3 in 1976, flew NYC to STL as the sole passenger, picked up some guys, flew to DEN, went skiing at VAIL! Sorry to hear that PBY sank in Monaco...boy those things really got around...at 130 kts!
 
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