Pattern Madness

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by dmccormack, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. Rndmtrvlr

    Rndmtrvlr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    +1. I really have no dog in this hunt. Never seen an OB by a formation of anything. Can't say I've been within a half mile of an RV (at least and been aware of it) or an RV pilot (I'm guessing they don't breathe fire or have horns or anything). But I really thought this thread was pretty well strung out by about post #65. Then the Air Force arrived. It's really been pretty amusing.

    :yesnod::yesnod:
     
  2. Panew

    Panew Pre-Flight

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    there are people who think all EAB are bad
    there are people who think all RV are bad

    there are people who think some EAB are bad, therefore EAB are bad
    there are people who think some RV are bad, therefore RV are bad

    there are people who think if you are not bad, you should not buy EAB
    there are people who think if you are not bad, you should not buy RV

    when a Cessna lands off field, the first thing comes to people's mind is he ran out of gas
    when an EAB lands off field, the first thing comes to people's mind is his Subaru died

    perception is everything


    (or is it?)
     
  3. Troska

    Troska Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Speak for yourself, please, Tim. I did not come from VAF, think the OB is a bad idea, and I am fairly disappointed in several longtime posters both here and on the red.

    It has made me reconsider the time spent participating in this community. You dont get the garbage when you are face to face at the airport. People may disagree, and tell it to you loud and strong, but they back it up with reason. None of the silly nonsensical attacks.

    Tim
     
  4. Rndmtrvlr

    Rndmtrvlr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Personally, I kind of enjoy the "passionate discourse" and don't find a lot of "silly" attacks, even in this thread. Some people are more articulate than others, and it's easier for me to mentally edit or skip over some comments in a forum like this than it would be if I heard them directly.

    The number of topics on these forums (like this one) which encompass multiple positions which will never resolve into one is understandably high.

    That being said, I'd be willing to enjoy a pint of Guinness with any poster in this thread. As long as they were buying.

    :cheers:
     
  5. BellyUpFish

    BellyUpFish Cleared for Takeoff

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    I guess I need to edit a post I made..

    The guy who peed on the taxiway was in a Trinidad, not an Aero Commander 112..
     
  6. Troska

    Troska Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I will be at DFW at 5.

    Unfortunately, I am so stuffed with KDs pit BBQ that I dont even have room for a beer.

    Next time, I will buy.

    Tim
     
  7. RoscoeT

    RoscoeT Pattern Altitude

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    Yep, they really spoiled the ignorant, immature, one-sided trash n' bash party that was going on. Sucks to have actual relevant experience and counterpoints by those who are actually personally immersed among RV pilots. Eveytime I've ever asked one of the "trashers" how many RV pilots they know personally, I've never gotten a response. Hmmm.
     
  8. lostpilot28

    lostpilot28 Filing Flight Plan

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    OK, please don't skewer me. I'm asking this because I really want to know what defines "Cowboy Flying". I just read the clip from Van's Facebook post that had 3 examples of what pilots were doing to increase the accident rate in experimentals. 2 were clearly stupid pilot tricks, but the third pilot didn't see a powerline over a lake.

    I know very few pilots that pick a destination and fly straight to it, way up high, and that's all they ever do. If that's the kind of flying I had to do, I'd sell my airplane and travel commercial (OK, probably not really).

    I don't ever do unapproved manuevers in the pattern, or close to an airport or other traffic. I'm respectful of airspace and "flying right". I observe the populated, lightly populated, and sparsley populated distance rules, along with the rest of them. But, I often fly out to the desert and do fair amount of "yanking and banking" because it's fun. I don't want to crash, but I do recognize that if you live your life locked in your home afraid of taking risks that you'll regret your life (at least I will).

    I don't do aerobatics that are inverted without an instructor because I haven't had enough training to make me feel comfortable. I've done a few dozen spins in the past 10 years, along with about 10 hours of aerobatics in different types, including my airplane (RV-7A, with an instructor/test pilot). So, I understand I would be at a higher risk of an accident then if I stayed at home...but where do you draw the line of what you should NOT do?

    PS - I almost started my own thread for this...I really hate the idea of keeping this one alive! :yikes:
     
  9. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Then there are people who purposely twist others words and try and paint them in a corner they were never even close to being in to begin with.
     
  10. BellyUpFish

    BellyUpFish Cleared for Takeoff

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    ... and each camp has their fair share of these people.
     
  11. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    Sorry. Don't know WHAT I was thinking. :)

    People who mess with paper airplane are less cheap than those to own real ones....

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  12. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    True, but I don't know how much clearer I could be with my statements and he keeps turning them around and around and around. It's like I'm listening to Dead or Alive.

    Read post 228 and see where I said anything about all EAB being bad, or all RVs being bad. But nooooooooooooooo.....I say that RVs pilots seem to have a higher tendency to be outside the envelope, and suddenly I hate all RV pilots.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  13. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I dunno. I wrote two paper airplane books, and I'm the world's stingiest bastard. Loud too.
     
  14. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Anyone giving odds on whether this thread goes over 1000 posts within 7 days of post #1?
    :popcorn:
     
  15. Rndmtrvlr

    Rndmtrvlr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    And there's not even any shameless "flirting" going on!! :lol:
     
  16. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Now that's funny right there (and true!) I don't care who you are!
     
  17. rpadula

    rpadula En-Route

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    Hehehe. I see how you could make that mistake. They do look kinda similar.

    But, dang, I know one 114 owner who I could imagine peeing on the taxiway (yo! Gary!) ! I really wanted to know if I was right! :rofl:
     
  18. BellyUpFish

    BellyUpFish Cleared for Takeoff

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    We couldn't believe it. We were standing in the FBO and as he taxi'd off the runway, the stopped. Everyone was like "What is he doing?" I was like "check him out, he's whizzin' right there on the taxi way."

    Sure enough, he was. Crawls back in, starts up and parks on the air carrier ramp.. We were all laughing pretty hard until he started back up and flames shot out of the cowl. He let the flames roar and pulled over to a tie down. Jumped out, and walked into the FBO like it was standard operating procedure. LOL

    Left again and headed to Florida I found out, after checking FlightAware against his tail number.

    I couldn't believe it.
     
  19. Panew

    Panew Pre-Flight

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  20. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I'm not making excuses for him, and I agree, he went off the deep end, it happens. He's very passionate about safety. Think of him as an old man with aviation as his lawn yelling at the kids to quit messin up his grass lol.

    As I maintained all through that thread and here is "I don't care what anyone does except I don't appreciate the potential conflict it puts me in to have a plane, or a flight, in my vertical column of airspace when I'm on final. It's very bad form, yet I have witnessed that very situation, an OB coming in for the break overflying a guy on final. That is very poor etiquette in my book and I did not like it. To this point, no one has told me an advantage to an OB vs. a straight in. By the nature of a straight in you get the "stand on" position over someone arriving similarly from down wind. I can come in straight in from behind the OB crowd and by their actions establish ROW. I don't particularly care who it is doing this, but observationally, since the last time I watched military jets doing OBs at NAS Boca Chica (that was my daily view from the reef for 2 years) I have only seen the maneuver done by RVs. At Boca Chica I literally witnessed every plane the US arsenal had operate into there, watching the F-14 come smoking into the pattern from off shore, pulling a very steep bank turn simultaneously sweeping forward the wings and putting out the gear and roll out of the turn just as the transfiguration was finishing up. It was impressive. Rarely did I see them break before mid field. B-1Bs were interesting to watch as well. All that time, I never saw them stack traffic over final.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  21. Jim Logajan

    Jim Logajan En-Route

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  22. L.Adamson

    L.Adamson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    As you might know, the OB question is going on at the VAF at the moment. Looks like about half of the poll don't support it as an alternative at an airport with other aircraft in the pattern. I don't support the OB either.

    L.Adamson
     
  23. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    To be honest, I can't see much reason for it for single-ship arrivals in anything that doesn't fly at about 350 KIAS or more (where keeping your speed up all the way to the break gets you there quicker). But for formations of even light planes, it makes a big difference in getting everyone on the ground without clobbering the pattern worse by arriving in a stream of singles.
     
  24. ajstoner21

    ajstoner21 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Just curious Ron, but how do you go about finding a qualified instructor to teach formation flight stuff? I've never really looked into it.
     
  25. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Yeah, like that, only 5'4 and Chinese....:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    I have met Bruce and he really is a good guy and surprisingly humble. He has a lot of diverse experience and is quite sharp. BTW, he critiques himself as hard or harder than he does others, and regardless the outcome, that is a standard of a man.
     
  26. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    If you're in a warbird, contact FAST through your type club. If not, contact FFI via:

    Stu McCurdy
    3509 Gattis School Road
    Round Rock, Texas 78664

    If you're in a Grumman (AA/AG, not warbird), shoot me an email.
     
  27. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I've kept company with Nobel prize winners and National Academy members. Bruce is the only person I know in who's company I have to stay sober to keep up.
     
  28. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Were you sober when you wrote that? :D
     
  29. Panew

    Panew Pre-Flight

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    name dropping now

    ROTFLMAO
     
  30. Rndmtrvlr

    Rndmtrvlr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Are we really done with this one? It was getting to be so much fun!
     
  31. BellyUpFish

    BellyUpFish Cleared for Takeoff

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    I guess.. All good things must end.
     
  32. jmcsherry

    jmcsherry Pre-Flight

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    Oh boy, home of the only Cessna to violate the DC SFRA twice by the same aircraft !
     
  33. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Guess I lose -- I was betting on 1000 posts.
     
  34. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Is this CPR on a thread.?
     
  35. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    These RV threads are so toxic that after the one on the Red Board was closed, the thread complaining about the first thread was closed. That, despite the fact that the second thread was completely civil, aviation relative, and actively ongoing.
     
  36. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What was the bet, er wager?

    (does editing the post count as one or two posts?)
     
  37. jmcsherry

    jmcsherry Pre-Flight

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    The wager wold have required the 1000th poster to read the entire thread!
     
  38. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    So you're saying you're a loser? :dunno: ;);):D

    Does this mean you are going to start doing overhead breaks in the pattern for fun? :D:D:D:D
     
  39. L.Adamson

    L.Adamson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I wouldn't know. The second thread was also uncivil.... to the point I quit reading the toxic trash.

    L.Adamson --- RV builder/owner
     
  40. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Same here, and I've never even SEEN an RV that I know of.