Passengers on charter repositioning flight...

[Sam D]

Apologies in advance if this is easily lookup-able:

If a plane which is dry leased to a charter operation needs to be repositioned to pick up paying passengers for a flight, can the plane take a non-paying passenger on the repositioning flight and still be Part 91 for that flight?

 

[TMetzinger]

I believe so. I expect some of our charter-savvy members can/will chime in, but I'm 99% sure I've seen it done that way.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Yes, the dead leg would be considered part 91 unless the company makes some sort of exception and operates it differently.

 

[brcase]

We used to do something simliar. We were hauling prisoners and would often take student pilots along as a guard during the 135 portion of the flight. It was actually required that we have a 2nd person on board when doing the flights. Then on the return (deadhead) legs they could either fly or recieve instruction under part 91 if the 135 pilot was also a CFI. or they could just ride along as a passenger.

Or course picking up the passenger and flying them back probably comes closer to a 135 operation than the above. But under the right circumstances I would think it would be legal to do so.

Brian

 

[Richard]

I am aware of some FAA legal opinions floating around that you are cool as long as the pax stay with the plane. That is, they don't leave the airport to say, go shopping at the destination. And the same pax must reboard. Lots of permutations of how this could be viewed as a air taxi.

 

[Richard]

We used to do something simliar. We were hauling prisoners and would often take student pilots along as a guard during the 135 portion of the flight. It was actually required that we have a 2nd person on board when doing the flights. Then on the return (deadhead) legs they could either fly or recieve instruction under part 91 if the 135 pilot was also a CFI. or they could just ride along as a passenger.

Or course picking up the passenger and flying them back probably comes closer to a 135 operation than the above. But under the right circumstances I would think it would be legal to do so.

Brian

This differs from the OP question. One, the student pilots were required per contract when carrying prisoners. Two, Pt 91 dual instruction on the return leg. Both those conditions don't exist in the OP scenario.

 

[taters]

Apologies in advance if this is easily lookup-able:

If a plane which is dry leased to a charter operation needs to be repositioned to pick up paying passengers for a flight, can the plane take a non-paying passenger on the repositioning flight and still be Part 91 for that flight?

totally legal...not much different than a jumpseater on a P91 leg.

 

[bob_albertson]

Apologies in advance if this is easily lookup-able:

If a plane which is dry leased to a charter operation needs to be repositioned to pick up paying passengers for a flight, can the plane take a non-paying passenger on the repositioning flight and still be Part 91 for that flight?

Sam, are you wondering if it is going to be OK to sit right seat for a fun flight? If that is the case, it depends on the aircraft only so far as whether it can be flown by someone who is typed as single pilot PIC. I don't know charter rules very well, but of the little bit that I know that would be something to just consider if you are wanting to sit up front for a ride. I can't really imagine too many 135 planes that couldn't have a single pilot, but if they dont require an SIC then I guess you just need to make sure the guy in the left seat is an MEI and willing to sign your logbook? That may get you around any legal issues

What do the guys that actually know about these things think about what I said? Close, as in hand grenades or do I need to wash my mouth out with a bar of soap

Bob

 

[Skylane81E]

Apologies in advance if this is easily lookup-able:

If a plane which is dry leased to a charter operation needs to be repositioned to pick up paying passengers for a flight, can the plane take a non-paying passenger on the repositioning flight and still be Part 91 for that flight?

Yes, I have several hours of Chieftain time logged from dead legs.

 

[Sam D]

Sam, are you wondering if it is going to be OK to sit right seat for a fun flight? If that is the case, it depends on the aircraft only so far as whether it can be flown by someone who is typed as single pilot PIC. I don't know charter rules very well, but of the little bit that I know that would be something to just consider if you are wanting to sit up front for a ride. I can't really imagine too many 135 planes that couldn't have a single pilot, but if they dont require an SIC then I guess you just need to make sure the guy in the left seat is an MEI and willing to sign your logbook? That may get you around any legal issues

What do the guys that actually know about these things think about what I said? Close, as in hand grenades or do I need to wash my mouth out with a bar of soap

Bob

I think a Gulfstream 200 requires a SIC. :wink2: (So the long term plan would be commercial then MEI, etc). But I think its possible, and I think Kent did it (back before he lost all his friends to jealousy! )

I was thinking more along the lines of: if I happened to be working at a company that had such a plane and was in a position to influence such things, could I tag a ride to someplace interesting if it didn't "cost" anything.

 

[RotorAndWing]

totally legal...not much different than a jumpseater on a P91 leg.

Yep.

 

[Everskyward]

I was thinking more along the lines of: if I happened to be working at a company that had such a plane and was in a position to influence such things, could I tag a ride to someplace interesting if it didn't "cost" anything.

Yes, as long as the company doesn't have a policy against it due to abuse of that privilege in the past.

 

[Ted]

Yes, as long as the company doesn't have a policy against it due to abuse of that privilege in the past.

Hmm. I sense the voice of experience.

I was fortunate enough to be able to fly on the S-92 on a repositioning leg as passenger - Part 91 operation for what's normally a SAR/135 bird. Very cool - I've never seen such high fuel burn numbers for going so slow in all my life!

 

[Aztec Driver]

I have gotten several hundred hours flight time in several different aircraft that way. As far as I can tell, many of the on demand charter operators train most of their new crews that way, too. One at a time on dead legs of charters.

 

[taters]

I have gotten several hundred hours flight time in several different aircraft that way. As far as I can tell, many of the on demand charter operators train most of their new crews that way, too. One at a time on dead legs of charters.

. You can also do a VCC FAR 135.293 checkride and allow the person to "train" on the 135 legs as SIC (yes even if not required).

 

[Aztec Driver]

. You can also do a VCC FAR 135.293 checkride and allow the person to "train" on the 135 legs as SIC (yes even if not required).

Provided the charter company wants to shell out the extra money for the checkride, which they may not. But yes, you are correct. It can also be a way to satisfy a customer who prefers two pilots on a charter, but the regs only require one. The extra pilot can trade for empty leg flight time.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I think a Gulfstream 200 requires a SIC. :wink2:

Lots of jets do...

(So the long term plan would be commercial then MEI, etc). But I think its possible, and I think Kent did it (back before he lost all his friends to jealousy! )

Lance Flynn did it better than me - He's still flying the durn things! Mine was a one-shot deal.

I was thinking more along the lines of: if I happened to be working at a company that had such a plane and was in a position to influence such things, could I tag a ride to someplace interesting if it didn't "cost" anything.

If the company "has" (ie owns?) such a plane, then 135 doesn't even factor into the equation, and yes you could hop a ride.