Passenger refuses to fly with female pilot

ScottM

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iBazinga!
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/woman-pilot-wont-fly/144393-19.html

The man first started grumbling to co-passengers, '(I don't want to die! She can't take care of the house, how will she take care of a plane?)

"He called the airhostesses and objected to the woman pilot. Ground staff was called and they took him out of the plane. This situation did not change for nearly 40 minutes even as other passengers became restless and upset."
The man relented only after he was told he would be taken off the plane -- with his check in baggage.


I am checking my watch, it says it is the 21st century, am I running a little fast?
 
Charlie Sheen copy-cats are starting up now, eh? All stocked up on crazy here.
 
So? Does everyone have to conform to you? Apparently his personal beliefs were being violated and he reacted. People do stuff every day that another may think crazy, irrational, or even dangerous.

The flight was to Mumbai. What does that tell you?
 
Hey, I'm down with the guy.

Shoot, a roast is probably burning in the oven. Plus, who in the hell is going to make her husband's martini when he gets home from work???
 
Everyone is entitled to their own personal views. He is no different. What causes the biggest issues is he's being rude to other passengers. If you don't like the pilot, get off. There are many other passengers that are happy to go on without you with the pilots they have. Not to mentioned you embarassed her and yourself. Harsh as it may be but a company is not going to change pilots due to one passenger having an issue with it and some passengers think they're the only one on the flight that matters.

As women pilots, the battle doesn't end. Thankfully, the US and many other countries have respected women as qualified and knowledgable additions to the flight crew and even encouraged it which is great but I do admit that there are other places I do not want to fly. I know if there is no respect as a woman in those countries, there is even less of a respect for them as a pilot. I do hope that people's thought process changes, but I too am entitled to my own opinions.
 
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So? Does everyone have to conform to you? Apparently his personal beliefs were being violated and he reacted. People do stuff every day that another may think crazy, irrational, or even dangerous.

And your point is?

My personal beliefs that we should all collectively shun anti-female-pilot doofuses, are now being violated. :eek:

Nay, trampled, even! Oh no! Call the ACLU!

I'm being repressed! I'm being repressed! :goofy:
 
I'm surprised they let this go on for 40 minutes. Guess they really didn't want to have to empty the cargo hold to find and remove his bags along with him.
 
Everyone is entitled to their own personal views. He is no different. What causes the biggest issues is he's being rude to other passengers. If you don't like the pilot, get off. There are many other passengers that are happy to go on without you with the pilots they have. Not to mentioned you embarassed her and yourself...

Disagree, Tristan; he embarrassed himself, no doubt, but there was nothing there to cause embarrassment for the pilot; the passenger's bias does not create any weakness or deficiency in the pilot.
 
Was this the pilot?

rosie_odonnell.jpg


If so, I'd have bailed, too.
 
Yeah I am sorry but I understand the guy. I look every time. But I would just get off claiming I was sick or something. Would not try to insult anyone.
 
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Regardless of his right to his beliefs, the guy's a fool to not realize that she would not be sitting there if she had not been found competent to do so.

But that's chauvinism for you... it defies reason and simple facts. :dunno:
 
Regardless of his right to his beliefs, the guy's a fool to not realize that she would not be sitting there if she had not been found competent to do so.

But that's chauvinism for you... it defies reason and simple facts. :dunno:

Getting through the school and passing the test does not make someone competent. I know plenty of bad doctors and lawyers. Lets not forget the girl in NY saying "I thought we would crash if I saw this much ice on the plane." Just before they pulled the yoke back when they heard the stall horn.

Plenty of bad men pilots out there as well don't get me wrong. But when I am not in control I like a Vietnam Vet up front..
 
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Odd. Usually it is female passengers that refuse to fly when there is a female pilot. For some reason those never make the news.
 
Was this the pilot?
I don't think she can fit on a flight deck of anything but a Zeppelin airship anymore, so no. Unless she was flying by remote control from a cargo bay.
 
Getting through the school and passing the test does not make someone competent. I know plenty of bad doctors and lawyers. Lets not forget the girl in NY saying "I thought we would crash if I saw this much ice on the plane." Just before they pulled the yoke back when they heard the stall horn.

Plenty of bad men pilots out there as well don't get me wrong. But when I am not in control I like a Vietnam Vet up front..

I think what you really mean is you want a male pilot with gray hair up there. Do you even realize how many women served in Vietnam? By golly yes, we have female Vietnam Vets. And oh right, that 'girl in NY' was the only pilot in the plane. Give me a break.

Sure wish I had known that lacking a penis was a genetic flaw that excluded me from any hope of being a competent pilot. Maybe 12 years and 6000+ flight hours ago I would have decided to take a more 'womanly' career path (whatever the hell that is) instead of endangering myself and everyone else because I lack the essential body parts to fly proficiently. :incazzato:
 
Disagree, Tristan; he embarrassed himself, no doubt, but there was nothing there to cause embarrassment for the pilot; the passenger's bias does not create any weakness or deficiency in the pilot.
You're right Spike. I think it would have just caused some defensive ruffled feathers with me, but as a pilot you keep your cool and do your job.

I do not have any airline experience but I have done enough flights and had experiences with a variety of people to realize that it's not an issue. I actually get more exclamations like, "wow, you have a cool job!" Plus, I don't consider myself a genius but I believe I'm with Laurie in the fact that I don't need someone to tell me I'm a good pilot(even though it's always appreciated!). I have a logbook, a flying career, and awesome friends to prove that.

Just remember, there was a time when women didn't work at all. Then who would there be to offer to buy breakfast at fly-ins or split the gas bill! :)
 
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Getting through the school and passing the test does not make someone competent. I know plenty of bad doctors and lawyers. Lets not forget the girl in NY saying "I thought we would crash if I saw this much ice on the plane." Just before they pulled the yoke back when they heard the stall horn.

Yeah, I knew someone would bring that up... but there was a man sitting next to her on the flight deck, and this did not change the outcome. And as far as flying goes, with rare exceptions, I'd say that accidents are usually the result of competent pilots making mistakes, not sheer incompetence.
But your point is valid- maybe I should say "it's an insult to her effort spent in training, and an insult to those who trained and evaluated her."
If she was the PIC, she would have had every right to stroll back there and remind him of this, then tell him to stop wasting all the grown-ups time and get the f**k off her airplane before she threw him off by his ear. If the male pilot was the skipper, he should have done so.

Plenty of bad men pilots out there as well don't get me wrong. But when I am not in control I like a Vietnam Vet up front..
I've met plenty of Vietnam vets I would definitely not want in control, LOL! But I feel you... I always feel better when I see someone who at least appears older and wiser; I think every flight crew should have at least one. Same goes for the cabin crew.
 
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I think what you really mean is you want a male pilot with gray hair up there. Do you even realize how many women served in Vietnam? By golly yes, we have female Vietnam Vets. And oh right, that 'girl in NY' was the only pilot in the plane. Give me a break.

Sure wish I had known that lacking a penis was a genetic flaw that excluded me from any hope of being a competent pilot. Maybe 12 years and 6000+ flight hours ago I would have decided to take a more 'womanly' career path (whatever the hell that is) instead of endangering myself and everyone else because I lack the essential body parts to fly proficiently. :incazzato:

For the first statement yes that is exactly what i want. It is the same thing I want if I have to go in for heart or brain surgery.

Yes I know women served in Vietnam. Just not as pilots.

And as far as your last statement I am fully aware of the guy who failed several ck rides in the left seat. More than 2 failed of ck rides and you should never fly commercial again. Would open up jobs for good pilots as well.

Just my personal thoughts I know they offended you I am sorry for that but it is the way I feel.
 
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Of course it was the male captain of that flight who actually pulled the yoke back when the stall horn went off.

Both horrible pilots.

Maybe I should have not watched Amelia.
 
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<SNIP>
Just my personal thoughts I know they offended you I am sorry for that but hell they are the truth.
Opinion != truth

Interesting how someone manages not to observe the world around them.
 
Opinion != truth

Interesting how someone manages not to observe the world around them.

EXACTLY!!!! One thing I learned in school is to be very afraid. Out of 80 people in my class I would let maybe 10 work on me. This made me open my eyes a little because before I thought bad doctors, lawyers, and pilots were the exception. But they are almost the rule....

One of the reasons I started flying was a fear for commercial aviation. ( a control thing I know) Now when I fly commercial I just like a certain type of pilot up front. Does anyone remember the Airtran pilot in Atlanta who got trapped in a very bad hail storm on final and it just destroyed the plane. All the passengers were rightfully calling him a hero and they ask the pilot about it. He said "I got shot down twice in Vietnam with rockets and lived do you think a hail storm is gonna kill me and my passengers" That is the type of Man I want up front...
 
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Regardless of his right to his beliefs, the guy's a fool to not realize that she would not be sitting there if she had not been found competent to do so.

But that's chauvinism for you... it defies reason and simple facts. :dunno:

The person up front just needs to know what the heck they are doing and be proficiient and skilled thats all that matters to me. But take into account where this happened. India! Which AFAIK is a very male oriented society I can picture this happening in a place like Egypt or Syria or Saudia Arabia etc as well. So Scott your watch is running fine but should you go to India or perhaps one of the other places I mentioned I think you will find your watch running quite a bit faster than the local clocks. I remember a guy I knew in college was in the Nursing school. A lot of folks though WTF is up with that? A guy in Nursing School. Now folks don't give it a second thought. In India I bet they would. Related to this I have seen a lot of spousal abuse cases in the local Indian Community where the man comes here, goes home gets married moves the wife here, she discovers the freedom here and how women live here and starts to spread her wings and become somewhat independent and not subserviant. The man's world is so rocked by this behavior he smacks her because his brain and social and family structure rules are still back in the homeland.

The Pax behavior was still infantile though and not acceptable.

I think what you really mean is you want a male pilot with gray hair up there. Do you even realize how many women served in Vietnam? By golly yes, we have female Vietnam Vets. And oh right, that 'girl in NY' was the only pilot in the plane. Give me a break.

Sure wish I had known that lacking a penis was a genetic flaw that excluded me from any hope of being a competent pilot. Maybe 12 years and 6000+ flight hours ago I would have decided to take a more 'womanly' career path (whatever the hell that is) instead of endangering myself and everyone else because I lack the essential body parts to fly proficiently. :incazzato:

Well I know this guy who looks like a girl and has really long hair so perhaps folks won't fly with him cause they think he's a girl because about 90% of his passangers are dogs:D


EXACTLY!!!! One thing I learned in Med. school is to be very afraid. Out of 80 people in my class I would let maybe 10 work on me. This made me open my eyes a little because before I thought bad doctors, lawyers, and pilots were the exception. But they are almost the rule....

One of the reasons I started flying was a fear for commercial aviation. ( a control thing I know) Now when I fly commercial I just like a certain type of pilot up front. Does anyone remember the Airtran pilot in Atlanta who got trapped in a very bad hail storm on final and it just destroyed the plane. All the passengers were rightfully calling him a hero and they ask the pilot about it. He said "I got shot down twice in Vietnam with rockets and lived do you think a hail storm is gonna kill me and my passengers" That is the type of Man I want up front...

Perhaps the guy should have known enough about Wx to know a certain system would produce hail and TS and steered clear? Not sure thats the case in that story but I guess it could be. Kind of like hey you saved our lives by making it through that Thunderstorm. Well perhaps the guy should not have flown into the TS to begin with.
 
Perhaps the guy should have known enough about Wx to know a certain system would produce hail and TS and steered clear? Not sure thats the case in that story but I guess it could be. Kind of like hey you saved our lives by making it through that Thunderstorm. Well perhaps the guy should not have flown into the TS to begin with.

Was not the case here look it up. You can still find parts of the story online. His name was, James Benton West. He was about a month from retirement when it happened with crazy hours. It was a Airtran DC-9.

He was enroute from Atlanta to Chicago made the landing in Chattanooga

here is a article, not a very good one from usa today
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/tornado/wtor508a.htm
 
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Was not the case here look it up. You can still find parts of the story online. His name was, James Benton West. He was about a month from retirement when it happened with crazy hours. It was a Airtran DC-9.

Oh as I said it may not have been the case in the situation you posted and I take your word it wasn't my point is just that even the old salts can do something not so bright ie Sparky Emerson, may he rest in peace.
 
We all may have our ignorance issues, but Denny, you're just a fool.

There aren't as many female pilots as male pilots, but percentage wise, there are far fewer male pilots who I consider to be good pilots than female pilots. And Vietnam Vets? Give me a break. Military pilots are, by and large, nowhere near as good as they think they are.

Not all are created equal, but the typical identifiers people use to identify a "good pilot" are about as accurate as a "good doctor" or "good lawyer." In other words, they're wrong.
 
We all may have our ignorance issues, but Denny, you're just a fool.

There aren't as many female pilots as male pilots, but percentage wise, there are far fewer male pilots who I consider to be good pilots than female pilots. And Vietnam Vets? Give me a break. Military pilots are, by and large, nowhere near as good as they think they are.

Not all are created equal, but the typical identifiers people use to identify a "good pilot" are about as accurate as a "good doctor" or "good lawyer." In other words, they're wrong.

Ted call me a fool if you want. Make it personal. What is your education level?
I think it is stupid to carry a bunch of dogs around in a plane as well. Listen this is a hot topic. I understand why. Just gave my honest thoughts.
 
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EXACTLY!!!! One thing I learned in school is to be very afraid. Out of 80 people in my class I would let maybe 10 work on me. This made me open my eyes a little because before I thought bad doctors, lawyers, and pilots were the exception. But they are almost the rule....

One of the reasons I started flying was a fear for commercial aviation. ( a control thing I know) Now when I fly commercial I just like a certain type of pilot up front. Does anyone remember the Airtran pilot in Atlanta who got trapped in a very bad hail storm on final and it just destroyed the plane. All the passengers were rightfully calling him a hero and they ask the pilot about it. He said "I got shot down twice in Vietnam with rockets and lived do you think a hail storm is gonna kill me and my passengers" That is the type of Man I want up front...
You have anything to back up your opinion? The only things cited in this thread is a female FO with a male PIC mishandling icing/stall conditions and a movie from Hollywood.

My experience and observations of the women pilots I've actually observed is they tend to be very good. I've met (and flown with) a couple of the POA women pilots you are maligning; I've also flown with women CFIs out east. I've found them capable and safe.

The professions you cited- there are more bad male doctors, lawyers, and pilots than bad female doctors, lawyers, and pilots.
 
Just gave my honest thoughts.

There are a lot of thoughts which are best kept to yourself.

Since you opened the door, you're still a fool. I don't care to know your profession or supposed education level - you've made it abundantly clear.
 
Women Pilots

Scientific Evidence that Men and Women are Designed Differently

Women drive only 30% of miles driven but are in 37% of the fatal accidents

"It is well established in the literature that a
wide variety of aptitudes, skills and cognitive abilities differ among the
sexes. The largest cognitive gender differences are found in
visual-spatial abilities. Research shows that males have greater
visual-spatial skills than females. Males also tend to be superior in the
quantitative area, while females tend to have better verbal skills.
Cognitive performance and spatial abilities are among the most
important attributes of flying. Verbal skills are also important to
maintain safe air traffic control communication and facilitate crew
coordination", Kathleen L. McFadden, Ph.D

WOMEN PILOTS ARE FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY THAN MEN PILOTS TO HAVE ACCIDENTS

"Using a chi-squared test of proportions, it was found that about 0.39% of female pilots employed by major airlines had pilot-error accidents during 1986-1992. Conversely, only about 0.1% of their male counterparts had pilot-error accidents."

From the observation that women pilots are FOUR TIMES more likely than men pilots to have an accident, Kathleen recommends that the airlines hire even more women pilots! This is irresponsible.

To her credit, she did note the following:

"... one study analyzed differences in accident rates among male and female private pilots. Private pilots, unlike airline pilots, fly for reasons other than compensation or hire. The study reports that from 1972-1981, females had significantly lower accident rates than males. However, one major criticism of this work is that it employed only rudimentary statistical analysis. Moreover, it did not adjust for recent flying hours, a measure of the level of exposure of pilots to risk. The most commonly used adjustment measure is a pilot's flying hours in the last six months (recent flying hours), although no universally accepted measure of exposure currently exists. The theory behind adjusting for risk exposure is that pilots who fly more frenquently may be exposed to a greater risk of being involved in an aviation accident. Consequently, if males had more current flight time, this may explain the higher accident rate of male versus female private pilots. The present study will explore the need for controlling for risk exposure, employ a more rigorous statistical methodology, and will focus on the pilot-error accident rates of airline pilots rather than private pilots. Consequently this study will fill a research void."

but then she said "AIRLINES SHOULD HIRE MORE WOMEN PILOTS"!

She ignored the simple fact that, if the reason men pilots do have fewer accidents is because they fly more often than women pilots, then this is just one more reason that women should not be airline pilots. If so many women are getting private pilots licenses, but still don't fly as frequently as men, then why should anyone presume that there is some other magical way to improve their flying skills? This isn't science--this is feminist advocacy under the cloak of "research".

http://www.fathersmanifesto.net/womenpilots.htm
 
Now when I fly commercial I just like a certain type of pilot up front.
Can't blame you for that. However using someone's external appearance as the determining factor is misguided at best.

Here's someone you might trust up front. He could never make a mistake, could he?

KLM_Magazine_that_contains_Captain_Jacob_Veldhuyzen_Van_Zanten.jpg
 
But when I am not in control I like a Vietnam Vet up front..
Since the youngest Vietnam vet pilots are now over 60 and the vast majority are already retired from airline service, you have an increasing problem. Even if you change that to military-trained pilots, the percentage of military-trained airline pilots has dropped from around 90% 40 years ago to under 50% today and is still dropping fast. Likewise, the percentage of women pilots in airline service is rising. Get used to it, or fly yourself.
Lets not forget the girl in NY saying "I thought we would crash if I saw this much ice on the plane."
And she was right.
 
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I've met plenty of Vietnam vets I would definitely not want in control, LOL! But I feel you... I always feel better when I see someone who at least appears older and wiser; I think every flight crew should have at least one. Same goes for the cabin crew.

Well, I haven't seen cabin crew on a US Airline that was younger than me in the last 2 years, and I'm 45, so we're set on that end.... I've even seen a couple that looked like they could be Vietnam Vet Moms...
 
<snip>Yes I know women served in Vietnam. Just not as pilots.</snip>

Since the youngest Vietnam vet pilots are now over 60 and the vast majority are already retired from airline service, you have an increasing problem. <snip/>
I remember being told by an Air Force recruiter that there were only two positions open to females: clerk or, if you have a degree, nurse. I also remember being told that women cannot fly. So, the mistake of excluding women from flight is very slowly ending. Very, very slowly. We still only make up less than 10% of pilots.

So, if you are gynophobic in an aircraft, you probably won't have much to worry about. However, if you do worry about it, may I recommend: http://www.phobia-fear-release.com/gynophobia.html
 
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