Part 135 question...

jfrye01

jfrye01

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jacob Frye
Hello all, haven't posted here for a while, so I apologize in advance for that;) Anyway, I have a question regarding part 135 ops...I am 1/3 owner of a 1967 Cessna 172. I am a private pilot with just under 200 hours. I am currently working on my instrument rating. My dad, not a pilot, asked me if I could deliver parts for his company (oil refining) using the airplane, as they often have small valves/pumps/pressure gauges etc. break...I understand in order to be paid for this, I will need at least a commercial certificate, which I intend to earn after the instrument, but would this also require a part 135 certification? Unfortunately, if it does, that would make the entire proposal obsolete, as the part 135 certification would be cost-prohibitive...If so, are there any "loopholes" that would allow this? Thanks!
 
jfrye01 said:
Hello all, haven't posted here for a while, so I apologize in advance for that;) Anyway, I have a question regarding part 135 ops...I am 1/3 owner of a 1967 Cessna 172. I am a private pilot with just under 200 hours. I am currently working on my instrument rating. My dad, not a pilot, asked me if I could deliver parts for his company (oil refining) using the airplane, as they often have small valves/pumps/pressure gauges etc. break...I understand in order to be paid for this, I will need at least a commercial certificate, which I intend to earn after the instrument, but would this also require a part 135 certification? Unfortunately, if it does, that would make the entire proposal obsolete, as the part 135 certification would be cost-prohibitive...If so, are there any "loopholes" that would allow this? Thanks!
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If you accept compensation, it's Part 135, and no exemptions exist. If you're just doing your dad a favor and not receiving compensation, then its a different story.
 
Darn. I was afraid of that. Thanks for clearing that up...any idea how much of a "mess" it is to become 135 certified?
 
More than you want to deal with.

On the other hand, if you had a commercial, and the company purchased or leased/rented an aircraft, they could pay you to fly it.

Basically you cannot provide _both_ the aircraft and pilot without being 135.
 
You either need a comm cert,or just keep doing your Dad a favor.
 
frfly172 said:
You either need a comm cert,or just keep doing your Dad a favor.
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...without your Dad paying you one cent for your time or your aircraft expenses. Personally, I think the solution from dans2992 is the best way to do this -- get your Commercial, have Dad's company procure the plane, and you fly it for pay.
 
Agree. It is just chump change for the oil company to buy a new Bonanza, and hire you to fly it.
 
Ron Levy said:
...without your Dad paying you one cent for your time or your aircraft expenses. Personally, I think the solution from dans2992 is the best way to do this -- get your Commercial, have Dad's company procure the plane, and you fly it for pay.
Click to expand...

This. If he's providing the airplane and simply hiring you to fly it, then it is a Part 91 operation.
 
jfrye01 said:
Hello all, haven't posted here for a while, so I apologize in advance for that;) Anyway, I have a question regarding part 135 ops...I am 1/3 owner of a 1967 Cessna 172. I am a private pilot with just under 200 hours. I am currently working on my instrument rating. My dad, not a pilot, asked me if I could deliver parts for his company (oil refining) using the airplane, as they often have small valves/pumps/pressure gauges etc. break...I understand in order to be paid for this, I will need at least a commercial certificate, which I intend to earn after the instrument, but would this also require a part 135 certification? Unfortunately, if it does, that would make the entire proposal obsolete, as the part 135 certification would be cost-prohibitive...If so, are there any "loopholes" that would allow this? Thanks!
Click to expand...

A dry lease is an option, but if you are already part owner in the airplane than it looks like you are holding out if you own/crew the airplane. Being part owner in the 172 limits you quite a bit on what you are trying to do. Sell your share to dads company and you can fly it all you want for hire as long as you hold an SEL/Comm. You can do the dry lease but would need to sell your share back to the other partners and they would lease the plane to your dads company. Of course you would need your other 2 partners on board for all of this.... Just tell you dad to buy an airplane!
 
Doing it in the partnership introduces a lot of legal/insurance issues that could get sticky.
 
Hypothetical I was curious about: if, in this case, the poster's father's company was a partner in the airplane with the poster (e.g. the three shares become four shares, with the poster retaining 1/4th the company owning the fourth) would the company be able to pay the poster for pilot services assuming he had a commercial certificate, current second class medical, etc., even though he was a co-owner on the plane?
 
kgruber said:
No...
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I think a more accurate answer is "it depends". If the partnership accounting covers aircraft expenses and divides them among the partners by something related to hours flown, I'd think there'd be no problems with the pilot's company as a partner paying the partnership for the plane's use just like any other partner and paying the pilot to fly it.

But as Ron Levy is likely to suggest, it would be prudent to draw up a plan and submit it to the FSDO for their blessing before jumping in.
 
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