panic attacks during training

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cn172

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CN172
I'm trying to get my PPL and I've had a few lessons but I don't have anyone I can talk to about this and I need some help before I get started with ground school. Whenever it comes to stalls, the G forces involved, I always get a panic attack, and flying in general usually involves some amount of anxiety. I'm planning on getting medicated for it, but my question is how would that look on my medical, how big of a deal is it to the FAA and me training to be and being a private pilot?
 
As stated above, the medications usually associated with alleviating panic attacks are not on the FAA's permitted list. IIRC, they have a sedative effect, and that's not something you should have in your system when flying.

Now what is permitted is anything that doesn't have a negative effect on cognitive abilities. This includes anything that doesn't involve ingesting something. Accupuncture, positive association, talking it through, etc.

If I was your CFI, I would offer to slow down on things until we got you past the items that cause the unsettledness. You mentioned stalls. Perhaps not being as aggressive on the entry. Perhaps working with slow flight enough to increase comfort level and get you used to entering and recovering from slow flight.

On steep turns, start with a lower bank angle to get you used to the fact that 20° to 30° can be achieved and the aircraft continues to fly. Then as you're ready, slowly increase the angle until we're doing it to PTS standards.

The idea is to recognize that for you, taking it at your speed of readiness, not the CFI's, is what's important.

But as stated, chemical medication for anxiety is not compatible.
 
Fear or anxiety are not a bad thing. I think it is a generational thing that now we seek medication anytime someone feels uneasy. Why would you want to circumvent your bodies natural defense in this case?

Stalls and G forces are not "natural" at first. That uneasy feeling is telling you something and that you ought to react. The key is being trained to react properly. Once you understand how to react properly some the anxiousness will go away.
 
On another note, I just want to reinforce what others said and don't let it think it's a stopper. Even though I've been flying since I can remember, when I was learning stalls this time around, I found them very stressful and unnerving to the point that I was doing a terrible job with them.

Eventually, I got used to them once I realized I needed to control the plane and make it stall when I wanted it to, not the other way around and now I like them although I can still feel my heart rate go up a touch.

The point being, with other types of therapy and going slowly at your own pace, you should be able to get over the anxiety. Flying isn't natural for most of us so it's pretty normal to find a lot of it frightful at first.

Good luck and hope you find your way through it :)
 
Timmer said:
On another note, I just want to reinforce what others said and don't let it think it's a stopper. Even though I've been flying since I can remember, when I was learning stalls this time around, I found them very stressful and unnerving to the point that I was doing a terrible job with them.
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I had a similar feeling with stalls this time around. I remember when I trained to get my PPL I loved them did them all the time. For some reason this time around many years later they were much more uncomfortable maybe I just understand better how spins happen. I think the problem was that I did them early in my training to get my BFR back and really didn't have my feet working. After my sign off I still had a short list of things I wanted to do one more time with the instructor and stalls were one of them.

It went much better the second time although I had one where I really let the wing drop and the instructor said just let go and see what happens. Sure enough the plane started flying again.

My first instructor had me really abruptly drop the nose my current instructor when he saw me do that said no need for that just release back pressure. Then he had me hold the yoke in my gut and let it stall. If you keep it level with the rudder it will just stall, the nose drops flys again, stall, nose drops, flys again, just mushing down. (your plane may vary) :yes:
 
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Go at it a little at a time. Medication will only mask the problem.
 
Go get an illegal download of lucinda bassets attacking anxiety:rolleyes: I mean buy it. Seems silly, they say it works for some people. If you want to fly, some sort of organic nondrug man up solution is your only choice.
 
Panicking in a stall or spin is kind of a normal human response to losing control over something that humans weren't built to be doing in the first place. There's really nothing abnormal about it, if you look at it that way.

The key to overcoming it, then, is a thorough knowledge of why these things happen, and a confidence resulting from much training and practice that you can, in fact, remain in control and recover from these situations. It's the feeling of loss of countrol that triggers the anxiety. Being confident in your ability to regain control will ameliorate it.

I suggest you hit the books and learn more about aerodynamics, especially the aerodynamics of stall, spins, and recovery; and also work with your CFI to thoroughly understand every stage of the process. Devote a few hours to nothing but that until you get so good at it that it gets boring.

By the way -- hiding this from your CFI is... well... let's just say unwise. Just don't use the word "anxiety," "panic attack," or anything else that sounds shrinky. "Nervous" will probably work. "CFI, stalls and spins get me nervous. I think I need to learn about and practice them more so I will be more confident."

-Rich
 
:yeahthat:

After a week of ground school, my young CFI decided to show me stalls on my very first flight! Scared the sh*t out of me! I pushed the yoke and throttle to the firewall in my attempt to recover:hairraise:

After looking at a windshield full of earth (twice), I was so nervous I wasn't sure if I'd ever get over it. After a thorough debrief, I was much more relaxed during the next flight because I was determined to get over my fear and move forward.
No meds:no:

I agree, slow flight should be practiced first before going into stalls.
 
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I panic every time my plane does something I don't tell it to do, or anytime it does something I don't expect. :yikes: So don't sweat it. It's natural.

Don't medicate it. That'll bust your medical. :nono:

Practice, practice, practice. How many times have we all heard that? Well, I'm going to say it one more time neighbor.
 
If you cant work through this, then flying is not for you.

Medicating would be disqualifying.

Step up and overcome your fears, or find a new hobby.
 
You need to find the right CFI for you. I finally found one. We've flown in the worst kind of weather, and he has been a calming force for me. Works better than meds, with no downside. Take your time easing into things.
 
RJM62 said:
Panicking in a stall or spin is kind of a normal human response to losing control over something that humans weren't built to be doing in the first place. There's really nothing abnormal about it, if you look at it that way.

The key to overcoming it, then, is a thorough knowledge of why these things happen, and a confidence resulting from much training and practice that you can, in fact, remain in control and recover from these situations. It's the feeling of loss of countrol that triggers the anxiety. Being confident in your ability to regain control will ameliorate it.

I suggest you hit the books and learn more about aerodynamics, especially the aerodynamics of stall, spins, and recovery; and also work with your CFI to thoroughly understand every stage of the process. Devote a few hours to nothing but that until you get so good at it that it gets boring.

By the way -- hiding this from your CFI is... well... let's just say unwise. Just don't use the word "anxiety," "panic attack," or anything else that sounds shrinky. "Nervous" will probably work. "CFI, stalls and spins get me nervous. I think I need to learn about and practice them more so I will be more confident."

-Rich
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Rich is correct. True panic attacks come out of the blue for no good reason. It's normal to be frightened by certain aviation maneuvers. I was scared s***less the first time my instructor did a power on stall and I still don't like them. If you can control the fear through training then you are fine.
 
I'm still a low-time pilot, but I have a certain amount of apprehension *every* time I go flying. I recognize the risks of flying and have what I consider a normal stress response to it. It used to bother me a little, but now it's just an anticipatory sensation of "this is important, you need to pay attention."

If it helps, the sensation subsided a LOT once I was flying exclusively on my own. You're just too busy when flying to think about it much.

I think it's healthy to keep that little butterfly throughout your entire flying career. Complacency is a Bad Thing in flying.
 
Whatever you do don't go see a shrink about this. It is sad but true. As far as the FAA is concerned just don't go to the doctor and everything is ok on paper. At the very least pay cash and tell them your name is Heisenberg.
 
You'll get used to it. I can tell you from experience, although I haven't had what I would call a legitimate "panic attack", I was pretty terrified getting back into the saddle again, to the point where every time I went up I swore it would be my last. Now, only maybe 8 or 10 hours later, I'm totally comfortable (excited even) and will probably go solo next week. :)

I posted this thread back when I was pretty anxious about it, and got some really good advice:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69807
 
I've made my CFI have several.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
I wasn't afraid of stalls but then one time I went up in a Grob 103 glider and while circling it hard and being thrown around at cloud base at 13k I remembered that it has a time-limited wing spar and that I'm not wearing a chute, at which point I had a panic attack.
 
Thanks everyone. I mean it's really just whenever theres a lot of negative Gs, even on a rollercoaster or fair rides when I get that feeling in my tummy it creates a panic attack. It even happened once when I was driving in a BMW with my dad, going at a very fast speed (obviously on a closed course) downhill and i could feel the negative G forces and I went into a deep panic for a little while.

I guess I'll just have to man up and deal with it with a CFI rather than a few years from now with passengers' lives in my hands, or not at all.
 
soyAnarchisto said:
Or do some spins - then the stalls won't seem so bad!
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This sounds silly, on the surface, but it's actually not.

My wife was growing increasingly uncomfortable with turbulence. Like, to the point where she didn't want to fly in it, even when she knew, intellectually, that there was no reason to fear.

So, my idea (which, amazingly, she agreed with) was to get aerobatic lessons in our RV-8A. So, we did, from an Air Force instructor.

It worked like a charm. She still hates turbulence (don't we all?), but it's not debilitating anymore. Once you've been upside down, turbulence (and stalls) fade to insignificance.

So, as crazy as this may sound -- go take an aerobatics lesson or two. Stalls will be child's play, when you're done, and -- if it allows you to continue your flight training -- it might be the best money you've ever spent.
 
zaitcev said:
I wasn't afraid of stalls but then one time I went up in a Grob 103 glider and while circling it hard and being thrown around at cloud base at 13k I remembered that it has a time-limited wing spar and that I'm not wearing a chute, at which point I had a panic attack.
Click to expand...

Please tell me more about the time limited spar on the Grob 103.
Are you referring to the 12,000 hr life limit?
There are life extension inspections at 3, 6, 9, 10, and 11 thousand hours leading up to the 12 thousand hour limit.

Unless a Grob 103 has been used in a ride for hire environment most club owned Grobs are only 1/2 way there or less. Our Grob 103 is on the high side of 4500hrs.
 
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