Paired ILSs: Tri Cities (sugg. by Bill Suffa)

[bbchien]

Two opposite ILSs, one with a wavy ILS, the other unusuable inside the threshold (has Cat II on ILS 23), and an obstacle on the NW side; part time tower that contols the TDZ & CL lighting....

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Two of my favs at the same place. Pretty weak CAT II because of the LOC restriction on 23 and you've got to remember to decouple at or above the NOTAM altitude on 5. Watch out for those towers and no CAT II after the tower closes. Hopefully the PCL works!

 

[wsuffa]

Look at the missed approach for ILS 5. Note that (absent an ADF) the intersection is defined by the opposite localizer on a different frequency (NOT the back course) and the 312 radial from HMV. Also note that radar is required for the ILS 5.

 

[wsuffa]

On the ILS-23, look at the missed. ADF is not required for the approach. The missed approach fix is defined either by the LOM/NDB or RADAR. If you don't have either an ADF or an approach certified GPS, what do you do if Radar goes out or you lose comms?

 

[bbchien]

"Effff eet goes tummy up mon after you mees the approach, you are hosed mon."

Another reason to brief completely and be pretty sure the approach is a make, or to have an alternate means on board. Of course you could "estimate the MAP hold" just like if the core navaid goes down inside the IAF...but out to the south somewhere there is a 7400 foot MSA....

And speaking of Misseds, my all time favorite is attached. Sorry about the lousy copy. It's from an OLD publication. But at least here there are two ways to identify the Missed hold. You just can't get to it anymore if you lose the rnwy on the fly visual segment.

 

[wsuffa]

"Effff eet goes tummy up mon after you mees the approach, you are hosed mon."

Another reason to brief completely and be pretty sure the approach is a make, or to have an alternate means on board. Of course you could "estimate the MAP hold" just like if the core navaid goes down inside the IAF...but out to the south somewhere there is a 7400 foot MSA....

BINGO. No DME. Don't fly this without knowing what you're going to do. I suppose you could use the opposite LOC and the marker beacon if you had to.

This is also a location where you want to check the A/FM for notes. You will learn that the ILS 23 LOC is unusable more than 10-deg right of centerline, and that ILS 5 LOC is unusable >25 deg left of c/l and glideslope unusable more than 5-deg right of LOC course. Fly the approach tight.... and one more reason to carry the green book.

"Airman must familiarize themselves with all pertinant information for the airport of intended arrival".

 

[grattonja]

On the ILS-23, look at the missed. ADF is not required for the approach. The missed approach fix is defined either by the LOM/NDB or RADAR. If you don't have either an ADF or an approach certified GPS, what do you do if Radar goes out or you lose comms?

I may be missing something here, but on the NOS chart I have, in the notes section, there is a small note in caps saying ADF or Radar required. Is this just for when the tower is closed, as it is right after the bit talking about increased visibilities when the tower is locked up for the night?

Gee, I can't imagine why circling not authorized NW of the field
It looks like an obstruction farm up there.

Does the CAT II ILS gain you very much here? I know you get 50 feet better, but you can't ride it down to the threshold. What does "RA192" mean in the altitudes and visibilities chart? It is military in the parentheses, but I don't remember seeing that "RA" term before.

Jim G

 

[grattonja]

"Effff eet goes tummy up mon after you mees the approach, you are hosed mon."

Another reason to brief completely and be pretty sure the approach is a make, or to have an alternate means on board. Of course you could "estimate the MAP hold" just like if the core navaid goes down inside the IAF...but out to the south somewhere there is a 7400 foot MSA....

And speaking of Misseds, my all time favorite is attached. Sorry about the lousy copy. It's from an OLD publication. But at least here there are two ways to identify the Missed hold. You just can't get to it anymore if you lose the rnwy on the fly visual segment.

"Successful go-around improbable". Nice. Should have an exclaimation point after it. "Don't do this missed approach" might be a better way to say it.

Jim G

 

[wsuffa]

I may be missing something here, but on the NOS chart I have, in the notes section, there is a small note in caps saying ADF or Radar required. Is this just for when the tower is closed, as it is right after the bit talking about increased visibilities when the tower is locked up for the night?

No, ADF or Radar is required to locate the missed approach fix (ILS 23) - BOOIE. If you can't identify the missed approach fix, you can't fly the approach.

Gee, I can't imagine why circling not authorized NW of the field
It looks like an obstruction farm up there.

Does the CAT II ILS gain you very much here? I know you get 50 feet better, but you can't ride it down to the threshold. What does "RA192" mean in the altitudes and visibilities chart? It is military in the parentheses, but I don't remember seeing that "RA" term before.

Jim G

RA is radar or radio altimeter. Gives you height above ground via onboard radar transmitter.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

On the ILS-23, look at the missed. ADF is not required for the approach. The missed approach fix is defined either by the LOM/NDB or RADAR. If you don't have either an ADF or an approach certified GPS, what do you do if Radar goes out or you lose comms?

If radar is out and you don't have any ability to legally ID the missed approach holding fix then you are SOL for this approach. There is an alternate missed approach procedure for 23 but I can't for the life of me remember what it is. Of, course if you're NORDO it don't much matter, I guess.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I may be missing something here, but on the NOS chart I have, in the notes section, there is a small note in caps saying ADF or Radar required. Is this just for when the tower is closed, as it is right after the bit talking about increased visibilities when the tower is locked up for the night?

Gee, I can't imagine why circling not authorized NW of the field
It looks like an obstruction farm up there.

Does the CAT II ILS gain you very much here? I know you get 50 feet better, but you can't ride it down to the threshold. What does "RA192" mean in the altitudes and visibilities chart? It is military in the parentheses, but I don't remember seeing that "RA" term before.

Jim G

Jim the field always has radar as long as the radar site is operational. When KTRI tower closes Atlanta center takes over the airspace and simply remotes the TRI radar to a scope in Hampton, GA. They have the same picture and video map.
As far as circling, you've got 300 feet of ROC and that's the standard. The only way your going to get more is if your personal circling mins demand it.
This CAT II really doesn't give you much other than the extra 200 RVR. Generally, a CAT II, or III localizer is unrestricted which means it plays well down the runway to allow additional guidence. This one is only good to the threshold. Your CAT II and III glideslope is only good to the threshold anyway so this is a pretty good match up I guess.
Whenever you see a CAT II or CAT III approach plate you will see an RA in () along with an RVR and Bill's absolutely correct, it's what you set in the RADALT to tee up for the missed.

 

[Arnold]

"Successful go-around improbable". Nice. Should have an exclaimation point after it. "Don't do this missed approach" might be a better way to say it.

Jim G

I think if you miss at INT you are okay, it is the go around from the baulked landing that will kill you. In between those two points -- well your guess is as good as anyone's.

Thanks for the chart Dr. Bruce.