PADS-B NavWorks

There's nothing prohibiting portable ADS-B out, it just won't qualify for the 2020 mandate.
 
Anticept said:
There's nothing prohibiting portable ADS-B out, it just won't qualify for the 2020 mandate.
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But come 1/4/16 they will be not considered an ADSB "client" and will not trigger a response from a ADSB tower, so effectively it becomes an IN only unit.

The OP must have received that email from the FlyQ folks promising 5 years of usefulness as an OUT solution.
 
Scrabo said:
But come 1/4/16 they will be not considered an ADSB "client" and will not trigger a response from a ADSB tower, so effectively it becomes an IN only unit.

The OP must have received that email from the FlyQ folks promising 5 years of usefulness as an OUT solution.
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That may not be the case. According to Don Houtz at Skyguard TWX, the FAA would allow his portable units to send a SDA and SIL numbers greater than zero if he included a better GPS position source. So the units would then still be usable at least out to 2020. He has a post on this thread in their forum regarding this issue:

http://adsb.skyguardtwx.com/forum/skyguardtwx-systems/faa-changes-tis-b-client-services-policy/#p80

So the same allowance on setting of SDA and SIL to non-zero may be true of the NavWorx portable unit. The FAA may be exhibiting some flexibility on some of the ADS-B technical aspects where they haven't otherwise shown any.
 
Jim Logajan said:
That may not be the case. According to Don Houtz at Skyguard TWX, the FAA would allow his portable units to send a SDA and SIL numbers greater than zero if he included a better GPS position source. So the units would then still be usable at least out to 2020. He has a post on this thread in their forum regarding this issue:

http://adsb.skyguardtwx.com/forum/skyguardtwx-systems/faa-changes-tis-b-client-services-policy/#p80

So the same allowance on setting of SDA and SIL to non-zero may be true of the NavWorx portable unit. The FAA may be exhibiting some flexibility on some of the ADS-B technical aspects where they haven't otherwise shown any.
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Seem that before but severely doubt the FAA will allow it. Don will continue to say that to sell units and people continue to hold out hope. I actually ordered one and returned it two days after I learned about the Feb ruling.

At the very least, there should be a disclaimer on Dons and the PADS folks website saying buyer beware, as opposed to continually dangled the carrot.

If SkyGuard and other similar units are allowed - I will eat my hat
 
I think the FAA will never allow portable OUT units, with the sole possible exception of gliders. See here, for example. The existing portable (or otherwise non certified) OUT units will cease to elicit ADS-B replies by the end of this year.
 
RotorDude said:
I think the FAA will never allow portable OUT units, with the sole possible exception of gliders. See here, for example. The existing portable (or otherwise non certified) OUT units will cease to elicit ADS-B replies by the end of this year.
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I just don't understand why some folks are questioning the FAA ruling, based on info provided by a vendor(s) of a product that their have a interest in selling as many units to the mis-informed.
 
Scrabo said:
I just don't understand why some folks are questioning the FAA ruling, based on info provided by a vendor(s) of a product that their have a interest in selling as many units to the mis-informed.
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Mis information is bad for all of us, regardless of the source. Below is the verbatim quote from the FAA rule:
"FAA Changes to the TIS-B service in late 2015 and early 2016 TIS-B Target Status logic will be modified to uplink TIS-B messages for ADS-B NPE aircraft as soon as possible; this is currently planned for operational rollout by the end of 2015. Though this may result in ghosting of some NPE targets for uncertified ADS-B-In systems, it will address the immediate safety concern. Manufacturers of uncertified ADS-B-In systems have over a year to modify their systems appropriately to avoid ghosting.
TIS-B/ADS-R Client Status logic will be modified to only provide TIS-B/ADS-R client status to aircraft broadcasting ADS-B with NACp>4, NACv>0, SDA>0, SIL>0, and NIC>4. These criteria are aligned with the requirements of TSO-C199 and should remove the incentives for NPE use. Establishing a consistent FAA performance “floor” for ADS-B systems will make more efficient and appropriate use of aeronautical protected spectrum. FAA will make this TIS-B/ADS-R Client Status change effective on or after 4-Jan-2016, allowing more than one year for industry to modify their uncertified products and notify customers appropriately.
The results of these changes will be:
(1) All ADS-B-In systems will see other aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out and transponders in areas with FAA radar/WAM coverage (complete & accurate traffic picture)
(2) Compared to the current state, aeronautical protected spectrum will be more efficiently used
(3) FAA will eliminate the current incentive for operators to equip with ADS-B Out systems that are not compatible with certified ADS-B-In systems "

I may be reading this wrong but it sounds like only the certified units are effected and the uncertified units will still be able to trigger the system to receive traffic after this change just like they do now IF they broadcast the proper parameters.
I don't know if the NavWorxs PADS-B unit is capable of transmitting approved parameters and it is unclear from the information posted on their website. A potential buyer should investigate this concern.
 
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Subject: RE: PADS-B info please
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:24:56 +0000
From: Bill Moffitt
To: John Johnson

Hello John,
The PADS-B does not meet the mandate as it is not certified (TSO/STC). The PADS-B is intended for the renter market, or those aircraft that don't need to meet the mandate as they won't be flying into that airspace come 2020.
Best Regards,
Bill Moffitt
NavWorx Incorporated
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Subject: RE: PADS-B info please
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:24:56 +0000
From: Bill Moffitt
To: John Johnson

Hello John,
The PADS-B does not meet the mandate as it is not certified (TSO/STC). The PADS-B is intended for the renter market, or those aircraft that don't need to meet the mandate as they won't be flying into that airspace come 2020.
Best Regards,
Bill Moffitt
NavWorx Incorporated
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I think that this letter is misleading, since it appears to suggest that 2020 is the only relevant deadline for these units. But as I understand it, by the end of this year all non certified units will no longer be able to elicit a reply from their OUT broadcast. This means that they will no longer receive their own on-demand "puck" of relevant traffic information and become, effectively, IN-only units. The only recent change is that the OUT signal of non certified units will be received by ATC and included in the ADSB broadcast as a reply to certified OUT aircraft.
 
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