PA28 crash just off KIWS (West Houston)

Jim_R

Jim_R

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No fire, no gas?
 
ETres said:
No fire, no gas?
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Probably had gas, had just taken off. Might have had the gas switch turned off, though that seems unlikely. Pretty obvious in a Cherokee. The news report mentions haze, could it have been SD after entry into IMC?
 
Yeah, whenever there's no fire, I always wonder if there was no fuel. Reports say they were headed for Pearland which is only a few minutes away (though it's not clear how that was known so I'm not sure how true it is), so maybe they didn't think they needed much fuel.
 
"The plane is a Cessna"

[somebody lets the reporter know there are small planes that are not Cessnas]

"-Update- Upon further investigation, the aircraft has been as a Piper Cherokee."
 
RyanB said:
So the gas can’t ignite during a crash if it’s switched off? :confused2:
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Just spitballing why a Cherokee would crash just after takeoff. I never regarded them as particularly demanding in the takeoff phase. And not all aircraft ignite when they crash, even when there is plenty of fuel.
 
The-Flying-Lawyer said:
"The plane is a Cessna"

[somebody lets the reporter know there are small planes that are not Cessnas]

"-Update- Upon further investigation, the aircraft has been as a Piper Cherokee."
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In this case, it was actually the Sheriff's Dept that initially identified the plane as a Cessna, and later corrected themselves. (The plane was in a remote location where reporters couldn't see it first-hand.)

Still, that initial error was probably because the sheriff or spokesperson thought any small plane was a Cessna.
 
Names of both occupants have now been released. One is in the FAA Airman database with a Student Pilot certificate issued in April.
 
It's tragic that this happened. I hope it wasn't the fuel selector being set incorrectly. To me that's not an aircraft problem, it's a pilot problem.
 
Jim_R said:
Names of both occupants have now been released. One is in the FAA Airman database with a Student Pilot certificate issued in April
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Student pilot with a passenger. No bueno.

Weather was probably IFR (from BeechTalk:.KIWS does not have NOAA weather history but at the time of takeoff (7:55 pm) from KIWS on Wednesday evening, KTME to the west was reporting SE 9, 4 miles vis.. Fog/Mist Ceiling Unavailable. KSGR to the south was reporting SE 12, 8 miles vis. Overcast OVC008.
Mui no bueno.

Add in being dark. Mucho mui no bueno.

Draw your own conclusions.


Additional edit: the crash actually happened Wednesday the 8th (had seen another thread that dated it the 9th), I launched from KIWS at 6:00pm, definitely IFR and trending lower.
 
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Blatham489 said:
Student pilot with a passenger. No bueno.

Weather was probably IFR (from BeechTalk:.KIWS does not have NOAA weather history but at the time of takeoff (7:55 pm) from KIWS on Wednesday evening, KTME to the west was reporting SE 9, 4 miles vis.. Fog/Mist Ceiling Unavailable. KSGR to the south was reporting SE 12, 8 miles vis. Overcast OVC008.
Mui no bueno.

Add in being dark. Mucho mui no bueno.

Draw your own conclusions.


Additional edit: the crash actually happened Wednesday the 8th (had seen another thread that dated it the 9th), I launched from KIWS at 6:00pm, definitely IFR and trending lower.
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In a post on Reddit (r/flying), there's a reply from an anonymous user claiming they were the accident pilot's first CFI. If their commentary is true, they would not sign the accident pilot off to solo, and the accident pilot either found another CFI to fly with or went on to fly on his own. Even discounting those claims, with a student pilot carrying a passenger and potential poor weather it sounds like there are pilot judgment issues involved.
 
Kathryn's has some more info that may be in the other links. Pilot first solo in July. Airport manager said the transponder wasn't working. Flight took place at 8pm.

So at the very least we have low time pilot. Possibly still student pilot. Plane with inop transponder makes you wonder what else was inop. New plane. Night flight. Weather was 900ovc 2m visibility. Take your pick.
 
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The “fields” surrounding IWS are flood control reservoirs and hold a lot of moisture. The weather/visibility can turn to horrible condition in minutes. It’s happened to me where I turned around within reaching pattern altitude on a perfectly blue sky just moments prior making my departure call at the rwy threshold.
Not making excuses for this kid because he broke a lot of rules, but just how dense do you have to be. There are other personal rumors and reasons he should have not been flying that evening, taking an unsuspecting and innocent passenger to her demise.
 
Albany Tom said:
It's tragic that this happened. I hope it wasn't the fuel selector being set incorrectly. To me that's not an aircraft problem, it's a pilot problem.
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Shortly after takeoff would imply that they were switching tanks during initial climbout. Assuming it was set to an incorrect position upon entering the runway, I wouldn't expect the engine would run long enough to make it to takeoff speed much less climbing out.
 
As a Cessna flyer that recently started flying a lance intermittently this is why I call out checklist items and touch the selector during the call out. Big fear of mine.
 
Jim_R said:
Went down almost immediately after takeoff. Two fatalities. Flight aware track here.

Other reports (here, but behind a paywall) speculate that the plane might have been recently purchased. (ID on pilot/pax show local addresses, but FAA registration is to someone in Cincinnati. Plane had only arrived in Houston a few days ago, as if maybe it was just delivered.)

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...ge-bush-park-in-west-houston-authorities-say/
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Student pilot carrying a passenger in IFR conditions. That pretty much sums it up. There is nothing to learn here. Its questionable if you can even refer to these as accidents.
 
sarangan said:
Student pilot carrying a passenger in IFR conditions. That pretty much sums it up. There is nothing to learn here. Its questionable if you can even refer to these as accidents.
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If that’s the case and it sure looks like it how does someone, FAA, prevent these unaware suicides?? Does it happen often enough to require some change in training??? How people acquire planes??
 
benyflyguy said:
If that’s the case and it sure looks like it how does someone, FAA, prevent these unaware suicides?? Does it happen often enough to require some change in training??? How people acquire planes??
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On a more fundamental level we should ask if it is the government’s responsibility to stop these accidents? I don’t think it is…
 
Tarheelpilot said:
On a more fundamental level we should ask if it is the government’s responsibility to stop these accidents? I don’t think it is…
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I’m all for less govt involvement. They tend to overreact and overreach. But the question stands how do we prevent this or is there no preventing this?? Asking just to have the conversation. I don’t have an answer.
 
benyflyguy said:
I’m all for less govt involvement. They tend to overreact and overreach. But the question stands how do we prevent this or is there no preventing this?? Asking just to have the conversation. I don’t have an answer.
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I think we have to let outliers be outliers. There was a guy in his rv10 a few years ago doing loops at night. Killed all 5 on board. Yes all 5. Wasn't even a student. He couldn't have gotten his license if he wanted to due to multiple alcohol related issues if memory serves.

Unless we have ramp police at every airport there's nothing the feds can do. Same thing with driving a car. How many vfr pilots fly imc? ATC trusts the pilots word until they can't. Darwinism needed a comeback. It's a shame it usually takes an innocent person with them.
 
There are consequences to peoples actions. Sometimes you bump your head and sometimes you get deaded. And as for the pax, the same ending has occurred for people that jump on the back of a motorcycle or in a car with a reckless driver. You have to watch out for yourself and others. Use common sense and be responsible.
 
texasclouds said:
There are consequences to peoples actions. Sometimes you bump your head and sometimes you get deaded. And as for the pax, the same ending has occurred for people that jump on the back of a motorcycle or in a car with a reckless driver. You have to watch out for yourself and others. Use common sense and be responsible.
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As far as passengers, it's easy for us to critique their thought processes. But sometimes what you don't know, you don't know.
 
When I read the first post, I just figured "new plane, pilot made a mistake." Which would be sad, but not unusual. Now I'm reading it as student pilot IFR. Which is stupid. We might be able to reduce the accidents caused by pilots unfamiliar with a new to them aircraft. But we can't fix stupid. You can maybe alter the way they're going to cause whatever problem they're eventually going to cause, but you can't alter the fact that eventually, they're going to screw something up in a bad way.
 
Albany Tom said:
But we can't fix stupid. You can maybe alter the way they're going to cause whatever problem they're eventually going to cause, but you can't alter the fact that eventually, they're going to screw something up in a bad way.
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We have a person at our airport that this fits pretty well. He came in a few weeks back and said he was giving up on his pursuit of being a pilot. Now he's returned saying that he'll do whatever it takes to get through this. I wanna help him but he just does not possess the drive (and I suspect the intellect) to buckle down and do what has to be done to earn a pilot's certificate. He has been warned (letter from the feds) about flying without even a proper instructor sign-off.

Personally I don't know that I can prevent him from flying by himself (he has a two seat sport plane). But if I'm around there is no way he's putting a passenger in that plane with him. I told him I would assist him in anyway that I can as long as he is serious and follows a legal path. He has agreed to work with an instructor and do this the correct way so we'll see how this goes ... as he has said that before (fool me once).

But to your point, maybe we can alter the outcome but stupid people are gonna do stupid things. I know cause I've had a few stupid moments too! :)
 
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