PA28-151

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RonP

Pre-takeoff checklist
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There was a topic regarding a PA28-151 and it mentioned it had “spring loaded ailerons”. What is the purpose of that?
 
I've heard people say the Cherokee has an interconnection between the ailerons and rudder with a spring or bungee system, but I've never seen any evidence in any of the ones I've flown or in a POH for any of the variants. Seems like an urban legend.
 
dmspilot said:
I've heard people say the Cherokee has an interconnection between the ailerons and rudder with a spring or bungee system, but I've never seen any evidence in any of the ones I've flown or in a POH for any of the variants. Seems like an urban legend.
Click to expand...

There's no information quite like misinformation.
 
dmspilot said:
I've heard people say the Cherokee has an interconnection between the ailerons and rudder with a spring or bungee system, but I've never seen any evidence in any of the ones I've flown or in a POH for any of the variants. Seems like an urban legend.
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The Piper Tri-Pacer had a bungee interconnect between ailerons and rudder; its successor the Cherokee did not.
 
The only spamcan I know of that does have rudder/aileron connection is the Ercoupe. How one safely lands with interconnected rudder and ailerons in a strong crosswind has always baffled me. Or forward slips.
 
I’m not a coupe pilot but I understand operating the coupe is different . Crosswind LANDINGS are routine and the TAKE-OFFS are the exciting part.
 
Domenick said:
The only spamcan I know of that does have rudder/aileron connection is the Ercoupe. How one safely lands with interconnected rudder and ailerons in a strong crosswind has always baffled me. Or forward slips.
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Several types have spring/bungee interconnect. The Tri-Pacer is one (though not its two-seat Colt derivative); another is the V-tail Bonanza. I remember taxiing my K35 and the ailerons would respond when making a sharp turn on the ground. 1969 and later Cessna 210s also have them. Cessna aerodynamicist and test pilot Bill Thompson explained the reason:

"To give increased visibility to the pilot the wing [of the strutless 1967 C-210G] was respositioned 4.5 inches rearward. This dictated a wing planform with a straight leading edge. Aerodynamically, this translates to a slightly swept-forward quarter-chord line and, hence, a decreased wing-dihedral effect at low speed. Therefore, it was necessary to incorporate a somewhat unattractive high dihedral angle in the 1967 C-210G. Eventually, in the 1969 C-210J/C-T210J this was reduced to 1.5°with the installation of rudder-aileron interconnect springs. Thus a corrective full-rudder deflection would pull the ailerons toward a wings-level condition in a wing-low lateral stability test. However, this interconnect system was loose enough that the pilot would be unaware of its presence in normal maneuvering flight."​

As to the Ercoupe, slips are impossible in the two-control 'Coupe. Here's the owner's manual advice on crosswind takeoffs and landings:

Scan.jpeg
 
RonP said:
There was a topic regarding a PA28-151 and it mentioned it had “spring loaded ailerons”. What is the purpose of that?
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I've always loved the spring loaded PA28-151.. the plane feels like it flies tighter and even more on rails. Aerodynamically they're different too

Cirrus is spring loaded, removes the need for control locks also

Fly a 151 and 161 same day, you'll like the 151 better
 
From the December 1973 Flying magazine, the first pilot report on the new Cherokee Warrior:

"Unlike the standard Cherokee's, the Warrior's ailerons are aerodynamically balanced. This means they are hinged in a comparatively complex manner that allows enough of the aileron's leading edge to protrude below the wing when the aileron is deflected upward (or vice versa) so that airflow pushes against the protruding lip and actually helps the upward deflection. Look at an ordinary Cherokee's aileron and you'll see they are attached to the wing with simple piano hinges; when they move up or down, the only thing helping them is the pilot's muscles and the mechanical advantage of the control system. The Warrior's ailerons also have light, almost unnoticeable centering springs, which contribute to its good spiral stability." [emphasis added]​

In a cost-saving move two years later, the fancy Frise hinges on Warrior ailerons were replaced with plain piano hinges. Frise ailerons did not appear on any of the later PA-28/32/44 taper-wing models.
 
when you're really maneuvering you can tell the better balanced aileron readily from the cockpit. Those simple piano hinges also just look cheap
 
Pilawt,

Thanks for the perk in the POH. Next question is why Piper chose to have the yoke self center?
 
Domenick said:
The only spamcan I know of that does have rudder/aileron connection is the Ercoupe. How one safely lands with interconnected rudder and ailerons in a strong crosswind has always baffled me. Or forward slips.
Click to expand...
The system is sprung. It's not rigidly connected like the Ercoupe's. You can still slip the airplane.

Some Cessnas that had the factory float kit have spring aileron/rudder interconnections. The springs were so light you didn't feel much.
This Cessna Service Kit for the 180 mentions it and shows to remove it when installing the dorsal fin and rudder centering system: https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/contacts/pubs/ourpdf.pdf?as_id=34920

Maule had an aileron/rudder tab interconnect for awhile. The aileron cables were connected, via small cables, to a tab on the rudder that moved the rudder in the right direction for coordination.
 
The funny one is the T-34. A rudder-aileron was required to get them civilian airworthiness and registration. But there is an STC to remove it.

So FAA said you HAVE to install it, but they said, but you can remove it.
 
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