Pa-28 down on Rabbit Ears pass outside Steamboat

J

Jthamilton

Line Up and Wait
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
616
Location
Steamboat Springs, CO
Display Name
Okie182
Home Airfield
KCAG
Local news reporting PA 28 went down on top of Rabbit Ears pass today. Apparently rescue teams haven't reached the site as of yet but CAP aircraft located the fuselage after tracking its signal.

Hopefully thoughts and prayers that the 2 on board just bruised up.
 
Fuselage located with no sign of survivors ,is never a good thing.
 
Latest report, no surviors. No names or N number yet. Aircraft not based at SBS (Steamboat). Unknown if based at BDU (Boulder).

Rabbit Ears Pass is 9426 MSL. Heading back to Boulder, one comon route is Corona Pass at 11,660 MSL. Another route is to head north and come around the Divide into Boulder. Much longer (1.5 hrs vs 1 hour) but once pass Rabbit Ears, flat land all the way back to Boulder.
 
Looks like some rain out that way the last few days. I wonder what the weather was like at the time?
 
Not sure what time this occurred. There were some showers and storm clouds in the south valley (Rabbit Ears area) later in the afternoon.

I was in yard with kids most of the afternoon and winds at our house around 7,000 were mild. Overall seemed like a good day for flying. I was going to travel to Craig and watch livestock auction and fly back to Steamboat and nothing yesterday would have convinced me not to.

Sad, thoughts and prayers go out to the family's.
 
Alert came out late enough yesterday that a night qualified aircrew was requested. Sad outcome. A friend of mine knew them. :(
 
Mabe they got a downdraft that simply overpowered them?
If The rabbit ears is 9426 I'd cross at 11k or better. depending on the load, and the individual airplane, a PA 28 should be able to handle it, but not much more.
I probably wouldn't take a 140 through LaVeta pass, but a 180 should be no worries on a decent day.
What's the MEA for Rabbitears?
 
Weather was noted as a possible factor, which is common at Rabbit Ears. The pass isn't visible from any weather reporting stations around Steamboat. It's common for the weather to be flyable at Steamboat but not at the pass. The locals like to take a peek at the CDOT highway camera as one way to get a little more info but it's pointed at the road, not the sky.
 
denverpilot said:
Alert came out late enough yesterday that a night qualified aircrew was requested. Sad outcome. A friend of mine knew them. :(
Click to expand...

Night qualified in a high pass? Yikes.

I guess that means there was an ELT. Night visual searches don't work so well.

All too often, CAP searches for bodies. Fortunately, our last one ended a lot better.Ercoupe had an engine failure over forested terrain, put it in the trees under control and walked away with his passenger and minimal injuries.
 
Of course just my opinion, but I'm not sure that weather that much of a factor but you never know. From what I've read the aircraft was reported as being late later that afternoon. I was in town around noon time and outside most of day. While in my yard I can see the entire south valley leading to Rabbit Ears, dark clouds and rain didn't seem to appear until late in afternoon.

Personally I would have flown till mid afternoon based on what I could see.

Again just my observations yesterday. Tragic situation none the less. My heart goes out to the families.
 
MAKG1 said:
Night qualified in a high pass? Yikes.



I guess that means there was an ELT. Night visual searches don't work so well.



All too often, CAP searches for bodies. Fortunately, our last one ended a lot better.Ercoupe had an engine failure over forested terrain, put it in the trees under control and walked away with his passenger and minimal injuries.
Click to expand...


I haven't heard that officially or unofficially, but you're right, only an electronic search will launch after dark.

This one sounds to me more like the typical request to ask for a night qual but also require the aircrew to be out of the mountains before nightfall in a late afternoon visual search start. Gives a bit more operational time in the area, prior to a forced RTB, without adding significant risk, since the crew can safely transit back to their home airport after dark over the flatland. All the airports are anywhere from 15-30 minutes away from the foothills and sometimes 15 minutes makes a difference.

A couple years ago here, a photo from an aircrew at dusk in winter -- who thought they saw something but couldn't quite tell, and were being chased out of the mountains by nightfall, so they wisely started snapping photos as they exited the area -- was analyzed, and a campfire was spotted in the photo.

That was enough of a sign of life that a ground search by numerous agencies in awful weather wasn't halted, as originally planned, for safety. There was *just* enough evidence there was someone alive. The plan changed to a smaller scale specific area search by well equipped snow machine operators.

They were found and pulled out before daybreak.

TV crews at the trailhead captured plenty of grown men and women cheering unabashedly upon receipt of a radio call that searchers were loading up everyone from the crash site onto sleds alive and generally unharmed, and were on their way out.

One... Photo. Only one. I've seen the grainy terrid photo personally and it's amazing anyone even saw the darn fire. In fact, if it were daylight it wouldn't have even shown up.

I talked with some of the folks who had to make that call and they said it was a tough one. It went a long way up the various chains of command of numerous SAR groups that night. A lot of very experienced people had to stew over that one a bit. Ground SAR agencies working on snowmobiles in bad weather in the dark. Bad stuff can happen quick and you'll have two searches going on instead of one.

Similar crappy weather halted the search for the turboprop that went down in Southern CO on a different date. Snowmobile crews coming in at midnight couldn't see because of wet snow covering their face masks. It had to be shut down.

That one was eventually found by a cadet doing an electronic ground based search on a ground crew when someone realized the whole forest in the area the ELT led to, smelled like Jet-A.

That's one that most ground folks hadn't experienced before and isn't mentioned in training manuals. Why do all these trees smell like a fuel spill? Oh. Wait a sec. Um. That is not good.

You search as long as you can, safely... Then you shut it down and wait for the daylight or the weather to subside. Waiting sucks.

I can't think of a better feeling for any of the groups searching for anyone here than that ripple of excitement when word is passed that someone is found alive. You're correct, it's not the norm. Not for CAP nor any of the highly capable ground search teams and technical rescue teams, especially in the winter.

I spent a few days up near Gunnison once doing Comm work waiting on the weather. Working a deathly silent mission base and manning a radio with virtually no traffic on it, knowing a family is waiting for news, is a very solemn experience. In the three days I personally had available, nothing but ground search was possible. All sorts of resources and people were ready to go and had to sit and watch weather forecasts go from bad to worse. It sucks.

Sad for the families on this one. The opposite of that elated feeling of a person being found is that quietly passed news that we're closing down Ops and all the aircraft are to be requested to RTB.
 
Listed as a PA28 and it was an Arrow (retract).
 
Yeah I didn't bother to list the errors in the article since I have not seen the Press get a crash article right in over a decade. :)
 
I was at Stagecoach Reservoir this weekend - we had significant TCU, CB, TS and gusty wind Friday and Saturday afternoon/evenings and looked worse towards Rabbit Ears.

I wonder if something else went down Sunday evening? We were in Steamboat around 5pm and County Search and Rescue headed out of town to the west about the same time a helo flew low over main street heading the same way.
 
I got some more insider info that I really can't share all of, but bottom line is this:

As soon as the aircraft was reported missing to a Steamboat local, he immediately guessed exactly where it would be. And there's three other wrecks up that drainage.

It's very sad and very odd. Maybe someone will figure out the mystery of why aircraft go up that canyon someday. It's not the way over the pass.

Personally it serves as a reminder back to my mountain training. Real navigation is absolutely critical.

Canyons look the same. Don't fully commit to flying uphill/up drainage unless you know *exactly* where you are or you can see all the way over the higher terrain ahead and still have another "out".
 
I've flown the pass with Don who was one of the CAP pilots who located the wreckage. Great pilot and darn good man. I've enjoyed every minute I get to spend flying with Don and soaking up his mountain flying experience.

Although I cheat with the turbo I still do some climbing in the south valley until I can safely see over the pass then and only then do I proceed across the highway. The south valley offers plenty of room to take your time and climb. I too wonder why that course has been taken by each that has perished and unfortunately we shall never know.
 
denverpilot said:
I got some more insider info that I really can't share all of, but bottom line is this:

As soon as the aircraft was reported missing to a Steamboat local, he immediately guessed exactly where it would be. And there's three other wrecks up that drainage.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what the sheriff said as soon as CAP identified the location.
It's very sad and very odd. Maybe someone will figure out the mystery of why aircraft go up that canyon someday. It's not the way over the pass.

Personally it serves as a reminder back to my mountain training. Real navigation is absolutely critical.

Canyons look the same. Don't fully commit to flying uphill/up drainage unless you know *exactly* where you are or you can see all the way over the higher terrain ahead and still have another "out".
Click to expand...

I remember the first time I took LaVeta by myself (with 2 non-pilot friends). On the way back, Ken says "that's the pass we came thru, turn here". As I explained to him, there are 3 passes or what look like passes from the Alamosa side. Only one of them will let us get back to Denver. To me, that's the benefit of a GPS - the breadcrumb trail and airspace are most important benefits to me.
 
Last edited:
Jthamilton said:
I've flown the pass with Don who was one of the CAP pilots who located the wreckage. Great pilot and darn good man. I've enjoyed every minute I get to spend flying with Don and soaking up his mountain flying experience.

Although I cheat with the turbo I still do some climbing in the south valley until I can safely see over the pass then and only then do I proceed across the highway.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what you're supposed to do?

The south valley offers plenty of room to take your time and climb. I too wonder why that course has been taken by each that has perished and unfortunately we shall never know.
Click to expand...
 
murphey said:
Isn't that what you're supposed to do?
Click to expand...

I implied I cheat with turbo as it makes it easier to reach altitude. Yes it is what you do I'm just confused why they didn't do it. It's my understanding that the instructor flew to Steamboat on a frequent basis. Maybe a different aircraft as I understand he usually flew in a Diamond.
 
Jthamilton said:
Although I cheat with the turbo I still do some climbing in the south valley until I can safely see over the pass then and only then do I proceed across the highway. The south valley offers plenty of room to take your time and climb. I too wonder why that course has been taken by each that has perished and unfortunately we shall never know.
Click to expand...

Why do people ignore the rules of mountain flying? Cardinal is never to fly towards high terrain until you're above it. Some days it's hard to just circle and climb (hot, bumpy days). Never fly up a canyon, always down and out.

I watched a very experience pilot fly up a drainage - I was well above - and asked him about it later. His explanation was that he had flown the canyon enough that he knew he had performance to make the climb. That's fine until a mag fails (or other mechanical problem). If you're going to fly up the canyon for training make sure you have enough room to turn around - as Nate said - always have an out.
 
Clark1961 said:
Why do people ignore the rules of mountain flying? Cardinal is never to fly towards high terrain until you're above it. Some days it's hard to just circle and climb (hot, bumpy days). Never fly up a canyon, always down and out.

I watched a very experience pilot fly up a drainage - I was well above - and asked him about it later. His explanation was that he had flown the canyon enough that he knew he had performance to make the climb. That's fine until a mag fails (or other mechanical problem). If you're going to fly up the canyon for training make sure you have enough room to turn around - as Nate said - always have an out.
Click to expand...


Yeah, all this back and forth on a previous post about taking the Mountain Flying course and here is perfect situation as to why! If you learn right from the beginning then I would hope you would take it to heart and do it everytime after. I like to climb high enough where I feel I can glide down oppposite side of pass if able of course if anything happened.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top