Owning acreage

[Let'sgoflying!]

Lots of good input on the costs and equipment involved; Jesse mentions the other thing - you get this new activity which uses any remaining free time; 'working on the land'.
And that's fine if you really like it. But if something really needs attention, you will have to give up (insert fun recreational activity here).
All this talk is making me really yearn for a 50x20 grass yard...wait make it xeriscaped with plastic potted plants!

 

[kyleb]

My sis and her husband recently got a great deal on about 60 acres of foreclosed land. I suspect they could have flipped it immediately and made $100k.

Once they bought it, they thought it needed a little work. So they started taking down trees near the ditch that goes through the pasture. And then they bought a tractor to cut the pasture. The tractor needed a place to stay, so they bought an old shipping container and had it set on the property so they could lock up the tractor and the ATV's they bought.

The beavers on one end of the property were damming up the creek, so the BnL bought a used bobcat to deal with that and some other things. And the first tractor was too small, so they upgraded there. The new tractor also came with a really big trailer. So they built a pole barn to house it.

All of this in addition to buying and spreading a bunch of gravel to stabilize the road in and out. They don't have any road frontage, so getting water and power to the property is going to be an expensive proposition.

At the end of the day, what do they have? A huge activity trap to consume their weekends, $50k or more in equipment to maintain, and a dream that when they retire they will build a house there and have horses.

Be careful for what you wish for...

 

[txflyer]

This seems odd to talk about, considering this is still a ways down the road. Nonetheless, the older I get, the more I realize my place is in the country. Who here does own acreage (...let's say 5+ acres), and in your experience, is it worth it? I do realize there are downsides (further commute, maintenance, etc.), but that seems worth it to me. My dream is, unrealistic as it may be, to eventually plow my own little airstrip and keep my airplane hangared on my own property. The idea of being able to hunt (and possibly fish) on my own property is very appealing.

What is there to consider when going about this? The land would be primarily for my own enjoyment but I would be open to using the land for profit. I'd like to stay in Va or Nc.

I grew up on and manage quite a bit of property.

To plow and maintain a place like you're talking about, heavy iron and tractors cost in the tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands more for the land, house, hangar, improvements, and well(s). All with insurance and maintenance. If you have the money, no sweat until something breaks or goes sideways. Just remember, the more stuff you own, the more it owns you.

As far as using it as a business, insurance and liability is going to be your #1 concern. Personally, I don't give permission to land on our land or our make-shift cow pasture landing strip. Even with no permission, if someone lands there and get's hurt, I could have to defend my position. If you give permission, and something goes awry, you REALLY have to defend your position and the safety of YOUR airstrip. You gotta think deeper when people get hurt or worse, and someone has to get paid from someone.

I would re-think your dream just a little imo ...

All good advice. Just to clarify, I do realize 5 acres is not adequate for a grass strip. But 100-200? I don't think so.

In terms of cost, do you need to be "well off" to own a decent home on 25-50 acres? I'm finding some properties for 200-300k where there are similar homes for the same price on .25 acres.

230 acres not enough for hunting!? My uncle hunts (from a tree stand, I should say) on 15 acres.

You don't need 100 or 200 for an airstrip depending on how the land lays and how skinny-narrow the tract is. 20 would be my minimum starting search parameter for a 2000' grass strip for a STOL aircraft like our skywagon. A true 5000' jet strip is going to require a section of land most likely or 640 acres.

To answer your questions best I can, yes, you need $$$$ to own a nice home on 25 to 50 acres. Otherwise, you won't build all those things you see in your mind.

It depends on what your hunting whether 230 acres is enough. It should be enough to shoot a gun at something ... that depends on the gun.

 

[PaulS]

My sis and her husband recently got a great deal on about 60 acres of foreclosed land. I suspect they could have flipped it immediately and made $100k.

Once they bought it, they thought it needed a little work. So they started taking down trees near the ditch that goes through the pasture. And then they bought a tractor to cut the pasture. The tractor needed a place to stay, so they bought an old shipping container and had it set on the property so they could lock up the tractor and the ATV's they bought.

The beavers on one end of the property were damming up the creek, so the BnL bought a used bobcat to deal with that and some other things. And the first tractor was too small, so they upgraded there. The new tractor also came with a really big trailer. So they built a pole barn to house it.

All of this in addition to buying and spreading a bunch of gravel to stabilize the road in and out. They don't have any road frontage, so getting water and power to the property is going to be an expensive proposition.

At the end of the day, what do they have? A huge activity trap to consume their weekends, $50k or more in equipment to maintain, and a dream that when they retire they will build a house there and have horses.

Be careful for what you wish for...

Here in the republik of Mass. I think you risk getting jailed longer for messing with a beaver dam than you would for murdering someone.

 

[OkieFlyer]

I grew up with a 52 acre place. Just a fairly common small hobby farm with a few cows (30 head max) and grew a little wheat and alfalfa. I don't remember having many maintenance issues, just normal stuff like fixing fence, and busting ice on the pond in winter. We didn't make any profit from the land, and we maintained it on Dad's income of maybe 60K/yr. It did take a fair amount of attention, but it was for the most part enjoyable. I've been toying with the idea of buying my grandma's 90 acre place, as she is getting pretty old and I'd like to keep it in the family, but it's a little out of reach for us right now.

If you're just talking 5 acres or so, go for it. That's a pretty small plot of land really, and should be no problem to take care of, even for a novice country dweller.

Get your azz out of town and get to the country. Good luck!

 

[Hank S]

I grew up on and manage quite a bit of property.

To plow and maintain a place like you're talking about, heavy iron and tractors cost in the tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands more for the land, house, hangar, improvements, and well(s). All with insurance and maintenance. If you have the money, no sweat until something breaks or goes sideways. Just remember, the more stuff you own, the more it owns you.

As far as using it as a business, insurance and liability is going to be your #1 concern. Personally, I don't give permission to land on our land or our make-shift cow pasture landing strip. Even with no permission, if someone lands there and get's hurt, I could have to defend my position. If you give permission, and something goes awry, you REALLY have to defend your position and the safety of YOUR airstrip. You gotta think deeper when people get hurt or worse, and someone has to get paid from someone.

I would re-think your dream just a little imo ...

You don't need 100 or 200 for an airstrip depending on how the land lays and how skinny-narrow the tract is. 20 would be my minimum starting search parameter for a 2000' grass strip for a STOL aircraft like our skywagon. A true 5000' jet strip is going to require a section of land most likely or 640 acres.

To answer your questions best I can, yes, you need $$$$ to own a nice home on 25 to 50 acres. Otherwise, you won't build all those things you see in your mind.

It depends on what your hunting whether 230 acres is enough. It should be enough to shoot a gun at something ... that depends on the gun.

Back here, on the skinny side of the Mississippi, we measure land in acres. Nobody uses "sections" until after crossing the Big Muddy; most Southerners don't even know what a section is.

I don't see how 50 acres would not be enough for a short grass strip. The county-owned field I flew it of for eight years was only 54 acres, plus some yuck on the riverbank that was worthless to everybody. It had hangars and a ramp area, fuel, FBO, etc. much more land than your house, hangar and barn would require, plus you won't need the land buffer they have between the hangars and the runway.

The big thing to worry about is zoning, will it be permitted to use your land to fly your own plane in and out of? What if your neighbors complain? Etc.

 

[ebetancourt]

As someone who has done this, i have to say that the two most important comments above (if you think you want an airstrip) are (1) make sure you fully understand what the LOCAL policies are (The FAA is easy) and (2) the airplane you plan on using there is going to determine the amount of work you do on an airstrip. I have used mine for going on 15 years and it is about two or three hours work a week in summer. BUT... it's 1800X40 and I operate a Citabria out of it. I am planning to change that to include a Waco, and I am desperately looking for someone with a full size (large) two drum roller to smooth the strip down. It is basically carved out of a hay meadow with almost no prep. Won't work for the Waco, and I really would like 60 feet. It will be critical to mow a straight line down the sides for perspective on landing since I can't see forward.

In general, a riding mower is probably enough on 2 acres, and might(!) keep up with five. More than that you need a tractor, and if you are part-time on the land you can't afford for it to break on the day you set aside to work, so cheap used won't work.

It's worth it. IMNSHO.

Ernie

 

[Pinstriper]

I have a 3bd room house on just over a half acre, in 2006 I bought the 3bd room house next door on a half acre (which my daughter and her family rent from us) .., to the south of me sits an old farm house on 5 acres (not mine) but I hold the key and have access to that acreage to ride our toys (6x6 banana split car and quads). I have lakes less than a mile a way (for our boats), my cherokee sits in a hangar at the local airport 1.4mi away... We are 1hr from the the coast KLLR (where we keep a car for our monthly trips)., I think we are sitting ok as we feel like we're in the country yet close to town and all our entertainment..

My brother has 16ac in BFE of Oklahoma and he loves it..
But to each his own..

 

[Everskyward]

I suspect when I buy a different house it won't be in the city but we'll see. As attractive as it sometimes sounds I remind myself that I stay pretty busy with aviation and work. Hard enough to "keep up" the yard in the city sometimes.

I think I'd be pretty happy with about 5 acres. Doesn't matter really - not something I need to worry about anytime soon. I want a Sonex more then I want a different house these days

I have 3 acres and it isn't hard to keep up with the yard. It's probably easier than a suburban yard because I don't water, and only mow the whole place about 3 times a year. I mow around the house more frequently but not that frequently. Of course the "grass" is field grass, weeds and wildflowers, which is one of the reasons I don't mow too much.

 

[timwinters]

In general, a riding mower is probably enough on 2 acres, and might(!) keep up with five. More than that you need a tractor, and if you are part-time on the land you can't afford for it to break on the day you set aside to work, so cheap used won't work.

Lawn tractors are obsolete but actually you can mow a lot more grass with a ZTR than you can a real tractor. Mine cuts 5' @ 14 mph and a tractor with a 6' or 7' PTO deck can't mow nearly as much. It takes a larger tractor with at least an 11' deck to out mow a good ZTR with a 5' to 6' deck. The other advantage of a ZTR is that I don't run over stuff because my deck's out front where I can see it and not behind me.

The bad part about a ZTR is that it takes both hands...it makes it hard to sip on a beer while mowing the grass! :wink2:

 

[PaulS]

Lawn tractors are obsolete but actually you can mow a lot of grass with a ZTR than you can a real tractor. Mine cuts 5' @ 14 mph and a tractor with a 6' or 7' PTO deck can't mow nearly as much. It takes a larger tractor with at least an 11' deck to out mow a good ZTR with a 5' to 6' deck. The other advantage of a ZTR is that I don't run over stuff because my deck's out front where I can see it and not behind me.

The bad part about a ZTR is that it takes both hands...it makes it hard to sip on a beer while mowing the grass! :wink2:

 

[timwinters]

Well, there is that!

(Plus it doubles as crash protection after you get drunk!)

 

[dell30rb]

I've made my living developing farm land into acreages. Most people who want to live in the country I sold land to never move out there. Its a pipe dream and they had no idea how much money and work it takes. $5,000 for a gravel drive, $12500 for a well, $10,000 for a sewer system, etc.

Considering a friend of mine just spent $450k on a small town house, that isn't so bad.

 

[kmead]

I've got just what you need. 2,100 sf 1907 totally restored farm house on 12.5 acres sitting in the middle of a section of land right in the middle of the occasionally windy state of Kansas. Huge restored barn and out buildings. You could even make the north/south 0.6 mile long drive way into a runway.

The only catch is to run my youngest out of her encampment there. I'm tired of the ownership and support of two homes.

Truthfully it was the best place to raise the kids and no neibor's within 1/2 mile in any direction. If only the wind would go away.

 

[Alexb2000]

Considering a friend of mine just spent $450k on a small town house, that isn't so bad.

Ask Geico how much for a tree out there on the plains?

 

[N801BH]

I've got just what you need. 2,100 sf 1907 totally restored farm house on 12.5 acres sitting in the middle of a section of land right in the middle of the occasionally windy state of Kansas. Huge restored barn and out buildings. You could even make the north/south 0.6 mile long drive way into a runway.

The only catch is to run my youngest out of her encampment there. I'm tired of the ownership and support of two homes.

Truthfully it was the best place to raise the kids and no neibor's within 1/2 mile in any direction. If only the wind would go away.

Heck.... Let the youngest buy you out and start building equity in his/her life...

 

[Henning]

Considering a friend of mine just spent $450k on a small town house, that isn't so bad.

That wasn't the price of land or construction, that is basic infrastructure, and not all of it, might cost another $30k to get electricity.

 

[dell30rb]

That wasn't the price of land or construction, that is basic infrastructure, and not all of it, might cost another $30k to get electricity.

Oh i was thinking they would throw the land and a house in for free

 

[txflyer]

Back here, on the skinny side of the Mississippi, we measure land in acres. Nobody uses "sections" until after crossing the Big Muddy; most Southerners don't even know what a section is.

I don't see how 50 acres would not be enough for a short grass strip. The county-owned field I flew it of for eight years was only 54 acres, plus some yuck on the riverbank that was worthless to everybody. It had hangars and a ramp area, fuel, FBO, etc. much more land than your house, hangar and barn would require, plus you won't need the land buffer they have between the hangars and the runway.

The big thing to worry about is zoning, will it be permitted to use your land to fly your own plane in and out of? What if your neighbors complain? Etc.

If you read my post correctly, I said 20 acres would be my minimum search parameter for a 2000' strip. You don't necessarily need 50.

I have a 2000' strip on 15 acres. But it's fenced and lays like a long and skinny rectangle of a tract.

Here's what I use (among other things) to smooth the hog damage and roll it. If there is no damage, I just mow it, chain harrow it, and roll it.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Agreed on the ZTR. Father bought some acreage and a Kubota B7100 with a 60" belly mower. Tractor did well, but then he bought a Bad Boy 60" mower and cut 20+ minutes off of his weekly mowing in the few acres around the house and pole barn. The compact tractor is great for box-blading and other 3pt work, and mows nice and clean; it just doesn't do it quickly. Now, if I were mowing an airstrip I'd probably still want a decent size finish mower or fine cut flail mower behind a tractor if it wasn't baby smooth. The ZTR will beat you to death with an imperfections in the soil where a tractor will soften the blows a good bit.

 

[david0tey]

If I was smart about this, I would have told you guys my dream was to live in a studio apartment in downtown NYC and had you talk me out of that one.

I do appreciate all the input. Once I get my career established and start making some real money, I'll have to start making some decisions.

 

[Henning]

You want to mow a runway, get one of these rigs: http://www.toro.com/en-us/golf/mowers/fairway/Pages/Series.aspx?sid=Reelmaster-Frames-Gangs

They also make ZTR type self propelled units.

 

[Mark Kelmar]

If you enjoy hunting and fishing you'll never regret buying acreage. I've owned 3 farms in Northwest Missouri just for hunting and fishing. They were all about an hours drive from Kansas City, close enough for the convenience of shopping, restaurants, etc. They were all 80-123 acres, but several neighbors had 5-10 acre parcels and did just as good as my son and I during hunting season.
We had ponds with channel cats, bluegill, crappie, redears, and some pretty decent sized bass.
Having good neighbors to watch your property is crucial, especially for me, since I live in Arizona. In states like Missouri 5-10 acres is enough for a pond and some decent hunting, to duplicate the same goals in Az would take 500 plus acres.

 

[Alexb2000]

If you enjoy hunting and fishing you'll never regret buying acreage. I've owned 3 farms in Northwest Missouri just for hunting and fishing. They were all about an hours drive from Kansas City, close enough for the convenience of shopping, restaurants, etc. They were all 80-123 acres, but several neighbors had 5-10 acre parcels and did just as good as my son and I during hunting season.
We had ponds with channel cats, bluegill, crappie, redears, and some pretty decent sized bass.
Having good neighbors to watch your property is crucial, especially for me, since I live in Arizona. In states like Missouri 5-10 acres is enough for a pond and some decent hunting, to duplicate the same goals in Az would take 500 plus acres.

I hear you and I certainly do. I've just found the lease rates so low I could never justify purchasing it. I've leased awesome properties for 10% of the taxes.

 

[weilke]

You want to mow a runway, get one of these rigs: http://www.toro.com/en-us/golf/mowers/fairway/Pages/Series.aspx?sid=Reelmaster-Frames-Gangs.

Those dont do much once the grass is 2in past blade height. If you can mow twice/week every week during rainy season, they are great.

 

[1600vw]

Do what the big golf courses do before a major and spray a growth inhibitor. You will mow a lot less during the rainy season using this. After a major event starts you can not mow the rough during the event. If its a 5 day event the rough can get mighty long before you get to mow it. They use a growth inhibitor before the event to slow this growth during the event.

 

[1600vw]

When mowing one can go to fast and the mower deck will just blow the grass over giving a mowed look. After a day the grass blades stand back up and you are mowing a couple days later.
To get a real clean mowing one can only go so fast. It matters not the machine being used, its the nature of the beast. Different mowers have different top mowing speeds. A real mower can only go from 2-4 MPH before the cut suffers. A deck mower has a top speed of around 8-11 before the cut starts to suffer. When one says I mow at 14 MPH. I bet dollars to donuts that the cut is less then perfect. Now I understand no one is cutting grass to golf course standards but its not about that. Its about how well the job is getting done. Excellent, good, poor. Using different speeds you can achieve each of the above. Of course the equipment needs to be kept in good condition.

 

[1600vw]

If you want those strips that you see on the golf courses, put a roller behind the mower deck. I am not talking a huge roller you use to flatten the ground. I am talking small rollers that are the size of each mower deck. This will give you that strip that you see on golf courses. Each deck you have, if your mower has one deck, one roller goes right behind mounted to the deck. If its a 3 mower deck unit a roller will go behind each deck.

 

[timwinters]

Those dont do much once the grass is 2in past blade height. If you can mow twice/week every week during rainy season, they are great.

Yeah, and then there' she frequent sharpening and adjustment. That's hella fun! (At least on the versions I'm familiar with.)

Now, if I were mowing an airstrip I'd probably still want a decent size finish mower or fine cut flail mower behind a tractor if it wasn't baby smooth. The ZTR will beat you to death with an imperfections in the soil where a tractor will soften the blows a good bit.

If the runway isn't smooth enough to keep the ZTR from beating you to death then it's not smooth enough to be a runway IMO. Mine have never been that rough.

But, again, this may vary by soil type and region.

 

[1600vw]

Reel mowers cut best when cutting 1/8th blade height. A blade style mower deck you can cut as deep as the unit can power without stalling the blade. But for best healthy grass one should never cut over 1/3 the blade when mowing. I never do this myself. But you get the best looking lawn when cutting no more then 1/3 blade length.

You can mount a roller behind a blade style mower deck and you will still leave strips. You do not have to use a reel mower to leave strips, its in the roller. Mount a roller to your deck and you will start making strips. After a while they get what we call burned in. Then you can see a checkered board once you start mowing in different directions.

 

[txflyer]

ZTR for mowing an airstrip? No way in bahia, coastal, or anything other than St.Augustine or real short tiff bermuda. Good luck with those without irrigation. If you don't want to spend hundreds of hours on a mower, then there's the six cylinder big air conditioned/heated tractor you're going to want that works, mind you works I said, and that'll cost you $70,000.00 and up new.

Then there's the 15' batwing minimum I'd go with with the tractor for really mowing 15 acres or more. Add another $15K new. This way, you knock out all your property in an hour, or two, not twenty on a ZTR every other week.

Below is our actual pasture/airstrip looking North after I let it grow up too much. It was after rains, and I missed a couple or three mowings because of wet, and I was gone elsewhere.





Looking South back at the mower....




:wink2:

 

[steingar]

One of my pals has a wooded lot on a bunch of acres out in the styx. Every storm some giant tree comes down, often as not on one of the buildings. If there's so much as a breath of wind the power goes out. He always and ever has some giant project to do. I guess its for some people, not for me.

The real killer is most of us work in the city. That means a commute, and for most of the folks in the country around here a fairly long one. Life is too damn short to spend gobs of it sitting in traffic in a car.

My take, though I am genuinely glad that those of you who like it are able to do so. Another buddy had a farm out in Amish country, he made gobs of money when he sold it too. Bet the first thing they did was take out that airstrip.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Yeah, and then there' she frequent sharpening and adjustment. That's hella fun! (At least on the versions I'm familiar with.)



If the runway isn't smooth enough to keep the ZTR from beating you to death then it's not smooth enough to be a runway IMO. Mine have never been that rough.

But, again, this may vary by soil type and region.

It's the lack of suspension and solid front wheels that cause the smallest imperfections to become a literal pain in the butt. The tractors (and aircraft) generally have better suspensions and pneumatic tires on all corners which soften the effects of divots and bumps in the terrain. Sure, you can buy high-end professional ZTR's with diesel engines and spring suspensions/air ride seats, but I'd just assume get a tractor, set the cruise control and plow on down the runway. If you work the runway enough to get it completely golf-course smooth, then by all means run the ZTR.

I will say the blade speed on most ZTR's is higher than most any rotary cutter will develop with the PTO speed tractors are outputting. The ZTR's generally run in the 18.5K-20K tip speeds, the rotary cutters generally run in the 16K-18K speeds. The increased blade speed allows for a cleaner cut and faster mowing speeds.

 

[timwinters]

It's the lack of suspension and solid front wheels that cause the smallest imperfections to become a literal pain in the butt.

Ahhhhh...I could see that. My ZTR is pneumatic all the way around and has a spring mounted seat.

I will say the blade speed on most ZTR's is higher than most any rotary cutter will develop with the PTO speed tractors are outputting. The ZTR's generally run in the 18.5K-20K tip speeds, the rotary cutters generally run in the 16K-18K speeds. The increased blade speed allows for a cleaner cut and faster mowing speeds.

Yeah, and then there are those idiots who sheave the blades up to get about 25k out of them so they cut cleaner yet. Not that I know anyone who would do that mind you. :whistle:

 

[dell30rb]

One thing to consider is you could round up 8-10 friends and lease 200 acres or so for a hunting club. Cheap dues. Pay someone to come out once a month with a tractor and mow what needs mowing. Split the rest of the work between yourselves.

Buy a used camping trailer and park it out there for your clubhouse. Get a pre-fab shed to keep gear (feeders, stands) in the off-season.

 

[denverpilot]

One thing to consider is you could round up 8-10 friends and lease 200 acres or so for a hunting club. Cheap dues. Pay someone to come out once a month with a tractor and mow what needs mowing. Split the rest of the work between yourselves.



Buy a used camping trailer and park it out there for your clubhouse. Get a pre-fab shed to keep gear (feeders, stands) in the off-season.

Have fun getting that insured... Better find a great lawyer to have a shooting club of any sort. It's doable but not cheap.

(Brother in law looked into commercial shooting range insurance and backed away slowly without turning around... Ha. He had the capital and plenty of investors ready to buy land and build until they talked to an insurer. The whole idea was over with in a single phone call.)

 

[Rotarywing]

Have fun getting that insured... Better find a great lawyer to have a shooting club of any sort. It's doable but not cheap.

(Brother in law looked into commercial shooting range insurance and backed away slowly without turning around... Ha. He had the capital and plenty of investors ready to buy land and build until they talked to an insurer. The whole idea was over with in a single phone call.)

Well that depends on your state. Not a big deal in MN. Insurance was dirt cheap.

 

[dell30rb]

Have fun getting that insured... Better find a great lawyer to have a shooting club of any sort. It's doable but not cheap.

(Brother in law looked into commercial shooting range insurance and backed away slowly without turning around... Ha. He had the capital and plenty of investors ready to buy land and build until they talked to an insurer. The whole idea was over with in a single phone call.)

No problem here.

 

[txflyer]

One way to do it for a city guy would be to get enough acreage for a strip, where you want it, and build a hangar/barndominium. If you're handy, you could finish out the condo on the inside of it yourself and save some $$$$.

This is going to be your cheapest and most insurable route.

You get your strip, hangar, and living quarters under one metal roof. And a big GD barn you can lock everything up in when you're gone. With an alarm system. A good barn is an improvement most everyone wants on land. If you strike it rich enough to build a nice home later, you've got your barn/guest house/man cave/hangar already up with electricity.

 

[weilke]

Well that depends on your state. Not a big deal in MN. Insurance was dirt cheap.

Insuring unimproved land is pretty easy, mine is covered with a rider on the homeowners policy for our residential property.

Insuring a commercial outfit related to shooting, particularly if there is access to the public is an entirely different issue.