Ownership and retirement

hindsight2020

hindsight2020

Final Approach
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hindsight2020
Many decades left before I'm in a position to retire, but for those close to it or thinking about it, how much has ownership affordability been part of your retirement planning? It seems the more I think about it, the more I place this avocation in the ledger of retirement goals. My peers, professional pilots who don't dabble in GA or otherwise find it cumbersome/pointless and not favored by their woman-master, don't really relate to my question as their retirement priorities seem to center around more traditional female-centric goals such as opulent housing and international travel.

Are you planning on downsizing airplanes, up-sizing, changing missions to accommodate reduced income? For me, a "retirement" that bumps me out of my ability to own and operate a XC aircraft in retirement is a failure in my financial goals. Just wondering how others are accounting for it. Thanks!
 
Tough call and definitely on my mind. I figure a good number for me is about $30K a year. So at 5% roughly $1M of investment (less taxes) to cover expenses with no existing airplane debt. Could it be done for less? Sure, in my case I need a certain cross country mission ability, so it would be tough. Turning laps in the pattern in an LSA could certainly be cheaper if that's your thing.

Big number to think about, maybe better we don't.:)
 
I think the perfect retirement plane for me would be an Avid Catalina with Rotax 914. Not an expensive plane to acquire or operate, folds up and goes in a trailer and can tow behind an RV and be shipped anywhere in the world pretty cheap, tow rig, trailer, and all just driven onto a RoRo.

It all depends on at what level you want to use aviation after retirement. Do you want to fly around the country visiting grand kids all over, or do you want to fly 'locally', with 'locally' being only relative to where you are this week, or anything else you can think of. Aviation is never cheap, but there are ways to fit it into most any budget if you are willing to think outside the box on equipment and mission.
 
LOL at your descriptions. My plan is to be poor enough(unable to afford a mortgage, boat loan, etc)so I can spend winters in some cheap third world paragliding paradise, fly every day for a couple of bucks of expense. Instead of planning to travel like a tourist, plan to live cheaply for a few months wherever you want to be. Changes the flying machine requirements drastically. At most half dozen commercial flights a year, that is tolerable.
hindsight2020 said:
Many decades left before I'm in a position to retire, but for those close to it or thinking about it, how much has ownership affordability been part of your retirement planning? It seems the more I think about it, the more I place this avocation in the ledger of retirement goals. My peers, professional pilots who don't dabble in GA or otherwise find it cumbersome/pointless and not favored by their woman-master, don't really relate to my question as their retirement priorities seem to center around more traditional female-centric goals such as opulent housing and international travel.

Are you planning on downsizing airplanes, up-sizing, changing missions to accommodate reduced income? For me, a "retirement" that bumps me out of my ability to own and operate a XC aircraft in retirement is a failure in my financial goals. Just wondering how others are accounting for it. Thanks!
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I am at the retirement doorstep. We purchased our retirement home and emptied our former residence. Thanks to a stagger its furnished for sale and we are waiting on a sale to pull the plug at work.

We have went through the numbers wanting to upgrade to a Bo but decided to keep our Sundowner instead. Maintenance is straight foreard, annuals not bad at all and only 475 hours on the power plant.

I have three retirements coming in plus investments not counting what the Bride has in retirement. All I can offer is work the numbers, keep it simple and don't own a maintenance hog.

I wish we had more speed for our travels but I'll take the two doors and elbow room for extended time in the cockpit.
 
International travel is a 'female-centric' goal? :idea: Hmmm... You may be onto something with that, I do tend to find more female back-packers out there than male, but the ratio is not huge. An anti travel bias among men would explain a few things though.
 
Henning said:
International travel is a 'female-centric' goal? :idea: Hmmm... You may be onto something with that, I do tend to find more female back-packers out there than male, but the ratio is not huge.
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That's my retirement goal so no need for an airplane except an airline ticket. I'm inching closer...
 
Sustainability of flight. Money, health, and desire. My final airplane will be a Cub. An E-AB Cub. It'll do what I want, be light enough for an old man to push around, and maintenance is pretty simple. The question for me is which Cub and that depends on 3rd class medical reform.
 
Homebuilding seems like a good retirement activity. It can fill lots of time, and the result is less expensive to own than a certified plane.
 
I plan to move to a state that doesn't tax your retirement income. Rent or buy a small condo should hopefully, also help keep retirement costs down.
 
Live in Florida all. Winter and fall,live in mass summer. Got rid of my twin for a liberty XL2 ,for my retirement aircraft. On a quest to land In every state In the US. Have covered. Half the country ,and did Alaska this summer. It's only a two seater with a cruise of 120 but enjoying every minute.
 
G-V

my retirement plan?

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My retirement plane is a 2010 Remos GX. Had my standard category and experimental itch scratched over close to 50 years. The Remos is easy maintenance, light enough for an "old guy" to move around, and has good performance. And the day I decide to quit taking flight physicals, I can still fly...
 
We sold our house in northern Virginia (Manassas) and moved to Washington State. There is no state income tax here and that was one motivation for the change, along with much lower property costs and lower property taxes. I'm now 15 minutes away from my plane and when our new house is built, I'll only be 5 minutes away. Compared to the 90 minute drive (that was the closest affordable hangar) we had in Manassas, I'm a happy flyhound!

We bought a lot with a water view (Port Townsend Bay) and a view of Mount Baker (snow capped year round). Our lot is located above a state park with a stream that has salmon returning each fall. We think we died and went to heaven. I'll continue to work as a consultant through this summer while our home is being built and then I'll hang up the work hat and play full time.

We have a Maule and it is cheap to maintain for a 4 seat aircraft and it will support the backcountry flying and camping I am interested in now. Once that itch is fully scratched, I'll sell the Maule and get an LSA motor-glider. Something like the Phoenix. With its removable wingtips, it will fit in the 40' hangar I have here. So, yes, flying was an integral part of my retirement planning and that drove many of the decisions we made on where to live. So far we're extremely happy with how things are turning out.

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Everskyward said:
That's my retirement goal so no need for an airplane except an airline ticket. I'm inching closer...
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There is nothing more pathetic than a retiree living out of hostels as a back packer. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

A Hobie 33 converted into an Express Motoryacht would be a great way to see the world as a retiree. You could live on the canals and rivers of Europe for free in some great spots, Asia is a wonderland of waterways and Islands. It has the capability to cross oceans on its own bottom, or be trailered and shipped anywhere at low cost. The ability to explore the inland waterways of the world is really an excellent thing as human culture developed, and still centers, on those waterways. Even in primitive regions like the upper Amazon basin, the water ways allow you access along with modern comfort and convenience, even if on a minimal scale. It makes a big difference where you can go and for how long when you can make your own potable water. Living/traveling on a boat also allows you to buy/catch/hunt and store food supplies efficiently. It's nice to have a couple months rations you know you can live on when you go exploring some places, as well as infinite safe water. It even makes a cheap apartment in Sausalito. Lot's of people also have sprout gardens on their boats.

Oh, if you want to see India, there is no better way than by boat.
 
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Henning said:
International travel is a 'female-centric' goal? :idea: Hmmm... You may be onto something with that, I do tend to find more female back-packers out there than male, but the ratio is not huge. An anti travel bias among men would explain a few things though.
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That has not been my experience... Though I tend to travel way off the normal path... Iran, Rwanda, Sudan, Uzbekistan etc.
 
DesertNomad said:
That has not been my experience... Though I tend to travel way off the normal path... Iran, Rwanda, Sudan, Uzbekistan etc.
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My sister has been to far more "off the normal path" places like Iran and N Korea than I have, and she travels with more than half women. My "off the path" traveling is mostly work related, and we take home with us.
 
Henning said:
There is nothing more pathetic than a retiree living out of hostels as a back packer. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

A Hobie 33 converted into an Express Motoryacht would be a great way to see the world as a retiree. You could live on the canals and rivers of Europe for free in some great spots, Asia is a wonderland of waterways and Islands. It has the capability to cross oceans on its own bottom, or be trailered and shipped anywhere at low cost. The ability to explore the inland waterways of the world is really an excellent thing as human culture developed, and still centers, on those waterways. Even in primitive regions like the upper Amazon basin, the water ways allow you access along with modern comfort and convenience, even if on a minimal scale. It makes a big difference where you can go and for how long when you can make your own potable water. Living/traveling on a boat also allows you to buy/catch/hunt and store food supplies efficiently. It's nice to have a couple months rations you know you can live on when you go exploring some places, as well as infinite safe water. It even makes a cheap apartment in Sausalito. Lot's of people also have sprout gardens on their boats.

Oh, if you want to see India, there is no better way than by boat.
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No boat, no airplane, only one residence! Trying to simplify.
 
Ever heard of the banana pancake trail? Turkey to India right through Iraq, Iran, Afganistan and Pakistan. In those days they were peaceful. The reason they called it that was the hippies liked banana pancakes and there were all these cafes that served them (staffed by enterprising locals). YMMV
 
coloradobluesky said:
Ever heard of the banana pancake trail? Turkey to India right through Iraq, Iran, Afganistan and Pakistan. In those days they were peaceful. The reason they called it that was the hippies liked banana pancakes and there were all these cafes that served them (staffed by enterprising locals). YMMV
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Yep, before the the events of the late 60s and early 70s in the region screwed everything up.
 
I plan to retire this year and I just bought a Bo. It was probably the worst financial decision my wife ever allowed/encouraged me to make. I guess it just means I will have to die a few years earlier than I planned.
 
I'm 8 years into having made this move and been retired for 3. It's working so far. The plan after 10 years of Maule ownership was to build an RV10 then retire to fly it until feeble.

I spent my last 5 years of employment building it. Two months following it's first flight, I retired with a '10 living on a low overhead airpark and a repairman's certificate.

Like I said, it's working great so far.
 
I was pushed into retirement at 60 and decided to stay that way. I've remained in my Warrior partnership and fly fairly regularly.
 
I was fortunate to be able to retire last May at 60. Sold our main home in Nashville and built a new home in Florida. Just bought a Skylane a couple of months ago and, so far, ownership has been affordable. Still able to split time between Cape Cod in summer and Florida for the balance of the year. Financial Adviser helped to make it happen and provides comforting reassurance of the continuation of the dream. :) Definitely more fiscally conservative now than when I was working. It's doable with the right amount of planning, working, and saving if you start early enough.
 
Henning said:
Yep, before the the events of the late 60s and early 70s in the region screwed everything up.
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Nope, it was long before that, early fiftys when a democratic government in Iran was overthrown by the CIA under Eisenhower. We replaced this with the shah! A real blunder. It was all about oil, just like the recent blunder in Iraq.
 
JOhnH said:
I plan to retire this year and I just bought a Bo. It was probably the worst financial decision my wife ever allowed/encouraged me to make. I guess it just means I will have to die a few years earlier than I planned.
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Yeah, but you'll have a Bonanza until then, so not a bad trade.:lol:
 
Honestly you can get a very nice plane for less than the price of all those new pickup trucks I see, and operating costs ain't bad if you can help turn wrenches, Ive never had a problem finding a hangar for under 200mo. I just don't think owning a plane is that big of a financial hardship :dunno:
 
James331 said:
Honestly you can get a very nice plane for less than the price of all those new pickup trucks I see, and operating costs ain't bad if you can help turn wrenches, Ive never had a problem finding a hangar for under 200mo. I just don't think owning a plane is that big of a financial hardship :dunno:
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Let's see an example of a ~$50K aircraft that you think is a good deal.
 
A thread close to my heart and current daily thinking.

It is VERY wise to be thinking about this decades before retirement in order to factor it in. I am probably less than a year from retirement, and airplane ownership didn't come into my life until a few years ago, so there was not early planning involved. As a result, I vacillate on a daily basis about whether to keep it or free up some extra funds.

Unlike some of the others here, I moved out of the city to my "retirement" home in my thirties. I moved to the boondocks with lots of land and a modest house instead of the other way around. I'm now debt free, so that, along with company pension and a few 401K's that have been combined into an IRA, the retirement plan looks good EXCEPT FOR the unknown which is inflation.

I am at the point where I can keep the plane and it won't be too bad unless I have to dip into my engine fund. Hangar, insurance, annual, will be something on the order of $500 per month or less as long as something crazy doesn't come up on an annual, or the engine decides to see an early grave.

Getting rid of these expenses would put lots of extra wiggle room in my budget, but giving up the plane at the point when I will have time to fly is not something fun to contemplate.

I expect that what will happen is that I will keep it for a year or two and try to get in lots of flying.

Planning decades ahead is really smart.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Let's see an example of a ~$50K aircraft that you think is a good deal.
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Look at the PA-20 or 22/20s. Most all of them can be had for <$40k, even the nicest of them. With minor skills to learn, you can keep one flying for a very reasonable cost for the rest of your life, and configure it to work well as anything from a commuter with wheel pants, a float plane, or on tundra tires in the bush. With 160hp they do well, if you put 180 on them they would be great.
 
Don't forget medical Without good medical the expenses could really ruin retirement. I retired in 2000 now live on an airpark in AZ. If we didn't have good medical we'd be in deep manure. The older you get the more you'll be seeing the people in the white coats.

Paul
Salome, AZ
 
Henning said:
Look at the PA-20 or 22/20s. Most all of them can be had for <$40k, even the nicest of them. With minor skills to learn, you can keep one flying for a very reasonable cost for the rest of your life, and configure it to work well as anything from a commuter with wheel pants, a float plane, or on tundra tires in the bush. With 160hp they do well, if you put 180 on them they would be great.
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I am a go somewhere aircraft owner, with the exception of living somewhere with a lot of back country flying (Alaska, Idaho, etc.). Since I don't live in those places, I want to go somewhere.

I did say that if your goal is to get in the air period. Then there are a lot of ways to do it. I'm just not one of those guys that wants to turn circuits or cruise around at 100 knots fetching burgers and BBQ. Nothing wrong with that BTW, just not my thing.

I see a lot of guys in retirement at one of our local airports. They keep a plane because they are pilots, but seem to fly less and less after the first year of freedom. No where to really go, expensive fuel, ground transportation, etc. I know a guy with a cherry Mooney, flies it about 15 hours a year, maybe less. He does use his toy hauler all the time though.

I think the hardest thing about retirement is looking in the mirror and being honest about where we are and what we want to do with our remaining time.
 
For getting places 2people you have a good set of choices among the RV-4, Midget Mustang 2, Thorp 18, and a couple others in that breed. If you need more capacity and want a nice plane, you do need to up the budget, but for $60k, less than the price of many premium cars, you can have a nice Bonanza. If you need more speed rather than capacity you can look at Lancair and Glassair products.
 
I'm currently thinking RV (I think it is the 8 that is the 2 seat side-by-side). Goal is to fly the Bo for 10 years and then start the RV project. Assuming 10 years or less to build the RV, I'll be ready to retire professionally.

Watched a thread on another board about a guy that travel the entire CONUS - perimeter - yep all the way around. Sounds like a good early retirement plan...
 
Henning said:
For getting places 2people you have a good set of choices among the RV-4, Midget Mustang 2, Thorp 18, and a couple others in that breed. If you need more capacity and want a nice plane, you do need to up the budget, but for $60k, less than the price of many premium cars, you can have a nice Bonanza.
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Yup. I'd personally have to keep a four place aircraft with reasonable travel capability at a minimum. Most of the time it would be the wife and I and two labs. Bo is of course a great answer as are others. $50K isn't my budget at all, I was just curious what James thinks is a good traveling aircraft for $50K since he made the statement.
 
brian];1672901 said:
I'm currently thinking RV (I think it is the 8 that is the 2 seat side-by-side). Goal is to fly the Bo for 10 years and then start the RV project. Assuming 10 years or less to build the RV, I'll be ready to retire professionally.

Watched a thread on another board about a guy that travel the entire CONUS - perimeter - yep all the way around. Sounds like a good early retirement plan...
Click to expand...

6&7 are 2 seat side by side, 4&8 are tandem, 10 is 4 seat, the rest I don't know, but I know he has a glider personal project with a number.
 
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