Owners to Non Owners

[poadeleted20]

The guy doing the 14k overhaul doesn't care if it penny smart, I'd be happy to do what he does for 14k.

The Navy called it PAR when we were in the service, "paint and return".

Now we're thinking alike. You want one of those "PAR" overhauls, you can get it cheap. You want an engine you can rely on for another 1800 hours, "It's gonna cost ya, chief."

 

[Tom-D]

It may be legal, but it is penny-wise/pound-foolish. The odds of a cylinder overhauled more than once making it even close to TBO are very slim. Ask anyone who overhauls engines as their primary livelihood about that. You can start with Bill Scott at Precision Engine Owensboro KY about that. I think Charlie Melot at Zephyr Engines will say the same.

You can ask me too, that is what I do, and this is what I compete against. and that is why I price my overhauls as I do, simply because you get what you pay for.

And OBTW 0-300 cylinder brand new seldom make TBO.

 

[Tom-D]

Now we're thinking alike. You want one of those "PAR" overhauls, you can get it cheap. You want an engine you can rely on for another 1800 hours, "It's gonna cost ya, chief."

Ron, If I overhauled a 0-300-A to new standards, for my self today, it would cost near 18k.

I just did one for a customer in Ca. his bills were high, 1400 for a cam shaft. (new) 12 lifters new, 12 hid.units (new), cases by Chuck Ney, 1200, (reworked) crank was returned to service as removed. 6 new ECI cerma/chrome cylinders, new baffling, reworked starter, mostly new exhaust parts.

I didn't see the invoices but I know it was over 20k

 

[poadeleted21]

Compare that list to what you get from Lycoming, TCM, Zephyr, Victor, Lycon, Precision, or any other well-known, good reputation shop. Then ask someone who really knows whether that "above and beyond" the place Rusty mentioned doesn't do is unnecessary or not.

He asked what an overhaul costs, not what someone considers necessary above and beyond what the FAA does. For an engine that can reasonably be put back into limits, take it to Brady, TX and let him do the removal,overhaul and install, give him the $12,700 he quoted and fly it home with 0 SMOH in your log book. If you want a new crank, tell him to put a new crank in it but that's not a requirement for an overhaul, nor are factory new cylinders. So yes, it is above and beyond and unnecessary.

 

[poadeleted20]

He asked what an overhaul costs, not what someone considers necessary above and beyond what the FAA does. For an engine that can reasonably be put back into limits, take it to Brady, TX and let him do the removal,overhaul and install, give him the $12,700 he quoted and fly it home with 0 SMOH in your log book. If you want a new crank, tell him to put a new crank in it but that's not a requirement for an overhaul, nor are factory new cylinders. So yes, it is above and beyond and unnecessary.

I suppose if someone asks what avionics are needed for IFR, you say one navcomm and nothing more. Have a nice day, Rusty.

 

[Tom-D]

He asked what an overhaul costs, not what someone considers necessary above and beyond what the FAA does. For an engine that can reasonably be put back into limits, take it to Brady, TX and let him do the removal,overhaul and install, give him the $12,700 he quoted and fly it home with 0 SMOH in your log book. If you want a new crank, tell him to put a new crank in it but that's not a requirement for an overhaul, nor are factory new cylinders. So yes, it is above and beyond and unnecessary.

Far 43.2 requires nothing to be replaced, but the MM for the engine does, and that is what we are required to follow and if he is doing that he is not following the required parts replacement list in the manual.

read the required replacement list in the service bulletin and in this case service bulletins are required because the MM requires them.

 

[Tom-D]

I suppose if someone asks what avionics are needed for IFR, you say one navcomm and nothing more. Have a nice day, Rusty.

Some times the engine is overhauled for the simple statement in the logs that says "0" since major in the for sale ad. Buyer Beware market.

 

[poadeleted21]

I suppose if someone asks what avionics are needed for IFR, you say one navcomm and nothing more. Have a nice day, Rusty.

Exactly, I got roasted on the red board for suggesting that sellers were being a little optimistic by sprinkling IFR! IFR! IFR! all over their for sale ads with only a KX170B and an ADF in the panel, even though that's above and beyond what's needed.

 

[Tom-D]

Exactly, I got roasted on the red board for suggesting that sellers were being a little optimistic by sprinkling IFR! IFR! IFR! all over their for sale ads with only a KX170B and an ADF in the panel, even though that's above and beyond what's needed.

How many times do we see " what's legal aint always smart, but what's smart, isn't always legal"

It's your money, spend it smart, know what you are buying. get the work order or see it entered in the logs.

many A&P overhauled engines will not have a work order, just a entry in the logs, how the paper work is done does not reflect the quality of the work.

 

[jpower]

He asked what an overhaul costs, not what someone considers necessary above and beyond what the FAA does. For an engine that can reasonably be put back into limits, take it to Brady, TX and let him do the removal,overhaul and install, give him the $12,700 he quoted and fly it home with 0 SMOH in your log book. If you want a new crank, tell him to put a new crank in it but that's not a requirement for an overhaul, nor are factory new cylinders. So yes, it is above and beyond and unnecessary.

How about an overhaul you'd be happy flying behind that has a good chance of making TBO+?

 

[Tom-D]

How about an overhaul you'd be happy flying behind that has a good chance of making TBO+?

That would be an 0-300- that has re-worked cases, re-worked rocker arms, reworked Rods, reworked crank, used push rods, every thing else would be new. cam, lifter assemblies, bearings, cylinders assemblies, gears, and accessories. with the added up grades ECI cylinders with exhaust valve rotators, oil filter.

Then IF , IF you run it LOP at all power setting at all altitudes, change oil at 25 hours, use Phillips 20W50 you will get as close as you can.

And Please, do not replace the old carb with a new style. the old metal float with a 2 piece venturi, and old style atomizer nozzle will run at 6.5-7.5 gallons per hour (LOP), and not foul plugs and combustion chambers. The new style will run 8-9 gallons per hour, and foul plugs like crazy.

 

[jpower]

That would be an 0-300- that has re-worked cases, re-worked rocker arms, reworked Rods, reworked crank, used push rods, every thing else would be new. cam, lifter assemblies, bearings, cylinders assemblies, gears, and accessories. with the added up grades ECI cylinders with exhaust valve rotators, oil filter.

Then IF , IF you run it LOP at all power setting at all altitudes, change oil at 25 hours, use Phillips 20W50 you will get as close as you can.

And Please, do not replace the old carb with a new style. the old metal float with a 2 piece venturi, and old style atomizer nozzle will run at 6.5-7.5 gallons per hour (LOP), and not foul plugs and combustion chambers. The new style will run 8-9 gallons per hour, and foul plugs like crazy.

All that sounds awfully expensive.

 

[Tom-D]

All that sounds awfully expensive.

today right at 20k

 

[jpower]

today right at 20k

Not as bad as I thought it might be, at least... And sorry again for the thread hijack! I was hoping it might be a quick and easy response, but I forgot where I was posing the question...

 

[Tom-D]

Not as bad as I thought it might be, at least... And sorry again for the thread hijack! I was hoping it might be a quick and easy response, but I forgot where I was posing the question...

want a new fire wall forward? add $8-10K. mufflers, baffling, engine mount, etc.

 

[poadeleted21]

How about an overhaul you'd be happy flying behind that has a good chance of making TBO+?

Here's my entry, I have another stack of paperwork to go with the OH but this is the entry.

 

[MDeitch1976]

Wow, never would have guessed overhauls cost so much. This changes things a bit. That plane even though a great price, a lot will be going into the motor shortly. At some point upgrading the avionics will probably be on the list. Not sure what that costs. I am going to guess about the same as the overhaul?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Tom-D]

Here's my entry, I have another stack of paperwork to go with the OH but this is the entry.

Where does that entry mention that it is "0" since major?

 

[poadeleted21]

Where does that entry mention that it is "0" since major?

Well... I sliced the top part of the sticker off that includes the "0 SMOH statement" so as not to put a well known shop's sign off up for criticism by the peanut gallery. But doesn't the first line where it says "MAJOR OVERHAULED" cover that well enough?

 

[Tom-D]

Well... I sliced the top part of the sticker off that includes the "0 SMOH statement" so as not to put a well known shop's sign off up for criticism by the peanut gallery. But doesn't the first line where it says "MAJOR OVERHAULED" cover that well enough?

Yes it does, but the wording we normally see is
" this engine complies with FAR43.2 for "0" since major overhaul.

but there is no standard wording required.

 

[poadeleted21]

Yes it does, but the wording we normally see is
" this engine complies with FAR43.2 for "0" since major overhaul.

but there is no standard wording required.

Doesn't have that, has the shop's name, the date, TSMOH:0 and the Tach time Below what you see is the guy's name, his credentials and signature.

 

[dukeblue219]

At some point upgrading the avionics will probably be on the list. Not sure what that costs. I am going to guess about the same as the overhaul?

Obviously depends on what you want. Take a look around some of the avionics shop websites. For example, I quickly looked it up and sarasotaavionics lists $17,989 for a Garmin 430W GPS/NAV/COMM, GMA 340 audio panel, GTX 327 transponder, and the VOR/GPS needle.

That's certainly a major avionics upgrade for this plane, but it's a starting point for discussing what you're actually interested in upgrading without going over the top crazy. Yeah, airplane toys are expensive

 

[Tom-D]

Doesn't have that, has the shop's name, the date, TSMOH:0 and the Tach time Below what you see is the guy's name, his credentials and signature.

That's all it really needs.

 

[poadeleted21]

Obviously depends on what you want. Take a look around some of the avionics shop websites. For example, I quickly looked it up and sarasotaavionics lists $17,989 for a Garmin 430W GPS/NAV/COMM, GMA 340 audio panel, GTX 327 transponder, and the VOR/GPS needle.

That's certainly a major avionics upgrade for this plane, but it's a starting point for discussing what you're actually interested in upgrading without going over the top crazy. Yeah, airplane toys are expensive

Yup.. If you don't order the value meal because "The soft drink is where they get you" but you think $10,000 for a 15 year old GPS is a "a good deal"..... you're ready

 

[Tom-D]

Yup.. If you don't order the value meal because "The soft drink is where they get you" but you think $10,000 for a 15 year old GPS is a "a good deal"..... you're ready

that's why the 172XP I linked is a much better aircraft, it has a very low time airframe, The radios are all ready installed, and it can be had for less than the advertised price. and it simply a better preforming aircraft than the 172. (195 horses beats the 145 any day.) 10 gallons of 100LL at 120 knots or 8 gallons of fuel at 105 MPH. do the math.


the 172 on the other hand has a high time airframe, worry some engine, no radios, to buy the aircraft at 23k add 20K for the engine and you are near the XP's price and no radios yet.

Proof positive we can buy better aircraft than we can build.

 

[flyingron]

That engine was a new engine when the aircraft was built. I'd expect to go beyond TBO, by 500 hours.

No it isn't. That engine has an unspecified total time and O-300's that fly infrequently (as the fact that this one has been topped mid time would tend to indicate) RARELY make it to TBO. It's most likely ready to fail any time now.
Nobody knows what happened to the engine that was put on the plane when it was built.

I've bought a lot of big ticket things on ebay: Grand Piano, Wooden runabout boat, a classic car, but this one is one I'd stay away from UNLESS I could get a competent set of eyes on it before I bid.

 

[Tom-D]

No it isn't. That engine has an unspecified total time and O-300's that fly infrequently (as the fact that this one has been topped mid time would tend to indicate) RARELY make it to TBO. It's most likely ready to fail any time now.
Nobody knows what happened to the engine that was put on the plane when it was built.

I was referring to the 172XP's engine. 1700+ TTSN