Owner Maintenance

jmpoplin

jmpoplin

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NCFlyer
Looking at FAR 43.100 it appears I can change my own oil & filter and aircraft battery - is this a true statement?

Jeff
 
Where did you find 43.100?

the real source is FAR 43. Appendix A para (c) items 1 - 31

And Yes you as an owner/pilot can do these items.
 
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Yes, the owner can conduct battery mx and replacement without an A&P.

Keep in mind though, that you can do any aircraft maintenance under the supervision of an A&P.

At our last annual inspection/maintenance event, I removed a bunch of instruments, a fuel tank, and a starter. Then had the instruments and starter overhauled, repaired the fuel tank and reinstalled it all. The A&P gave guidance and signed it off when it was done. The IA also came by to do the annual inspection part.
 
What if the new battery is a different weight than the old battery?
 
EdFred said:
What if the new battery is a different weight than the old battery?
Click to expand...

It will be the same as any authorized replacement, or it will be STCed or illegal.
 
EdFred said:
What if the new battery is a different weight than the old battery?
Click to expand...

As you well know, a new W&B sheet is required. Sign-off required on the new W&B along with log entry.

Just did this a few months ago and I had to point out to the IA that the batteries had different weights. Much happier with the Concorde AGM. The Gill just didn't cut it anymore (and never really was anything more than be barely adequate).
 
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Clark1961 said:
As you well know, a new W&B sheet is required. Sign-off required on the new W&B along with log entry.

Just did this a few months ago and I had to point out to the IA that the batteries had different weights. Much happier with the Concorde AGM. The Gill just didn't cut it anymore (and never really was anything more than being barely adequate).
Click to expand...

How much difference was there?

Did the new Battery have STC paper work attached? What did it say?

did you re-weigh the aircraft or compute the new CG?
 
Clark1961 said:
As you well know, a new W&B sheet is required. Sign-off required on the new W&B along with log entry.

Just did this a few months ago and I had to point out to the IA that the batteries had different weights. Much happier with the Concorde AGM. The Gill just didn't cut it anymore (and never really was anything more than be barely adequate).
Click to expand...

Exactly....so the owner can't necessarily do a battery replacement.
 
EdFred said:
Exactly....so the owner can't necessarily do a battery replacement.
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Sure he can, with the same type of battery. Simple maintenance is all that the rules are intended for, not modifications. If he wants to install a different battery or one that requires a STC, he needs a sign-off and paperwork.

EdFred said:
How does the owner make a new legal W&B sheet w/o an A&P ?
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Again, if its the same kind of battery, it would have the same weight. Installing anything that changes the w&b needs a sign-off and a new/ammended w&b report.
 
Replacing a POS battery with the same one. Brilliant. I have some punctured tubes you can use to replace your punctured tubes as well.
 
EdFred said:
Replacing a POS battery with the same one. Brilliant. I have some punctured tubes you can use to replace your punctured tubes as well.
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I wouldn't need to use a punctured tube, just the one that's listed in the parts catalog or pma equivalent. A tube that required an stc would be a no-no for an owner install.

The rules are there to stop the common joe from putting in parts they "think" are an improvement over the original. Part of the problem is people that think that any new technology has to be better than what they were making 50 years ago. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Its the "isn't" that can kill you.

Kudos to the people that realize that upgrading the battery might change the w&b. Not every owner would think of that, and that is why the rules exist.
 
Clark1961 said:
significant

I doubt that, use the FAA guidance as to what that (significant) words means.


yes, well, not attached but it was in the same box
don't remember exactly but do remember my aircraft was on the list

All that is required is the directions in the installation instructions be followed. I've never seen any battery replacement that required a re-weigh, or a new W&B.


I did neither (at least officially but I did check the IA's work).
Click to expand...

During any STCed Modification read the instructions they do tell you what to do. If your A&P-IA didn't read the installation instructions and did a re-weigh at your expense. I'd recheck that .
 
Tom, look at the weight difference between the Gill 35 and the Concorde 35 glass mat (the top of the line one). The difference is on the order of 5 pounds. Doubt it all you want but it does require a new W&B.

Maybe you're in the same boat my IA was and just hadn't stopped to look at the details...
 
Do desirable batteries ever go bad?
EdFred said:
Replacing a POS battery with the same one. Brilliant. I have some punctured tubes you can use to replace your punctured tubes as well.
Click to expand...
 
Clark1961 said:
Tom, look at the weight difference between the Gill 35 and the Concorde 35 glass mat (the top of the line one). The difference is on the order of 5 pounds. Doubt it all you want but it does require a new W&B.

Maybe you're in the same boat my IA was and just hadn't stopped to look at the details...
Click to expand...

All you ever wanted to know about W&B

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/faa-h-8083-1a.pdf

What does the STC say about W&B for this installation? You must have a copy.
 
Clark1961 said:
Why do you ask?
Click to expand...

Because if you read it, it will tell you what to do about the W&B and what data to use.X pounds at X inches, etc

The FAA has tested and inspected the data during the STC certification, and if the STC does not direct the data to use, then they have considered it insignificant. and the W&B need not be changed.

5 pounds at a small arm may be just that, and not move the Empty weight CG any.
 
Clark1961 said:
Just did this a few months ago and I had to point out to the IA that the batteries had different weights. Much happier with the Concorde AGM. The Gill just didn't cut it anymore (and never really was anything more than be barely adequate).
Click to expand...

WORD! I replaced the Gill in the 6 with the Concorde AGM and its been awesome. It threw the prop around so fast it the engine wouldn't start because the springs in the magneto impulse coupling were shot. So I got a new battery and a new impulse coupling. :mad2:

Tom,
I looked up the installation instructions that came with the STC for the concorde battery.
Step 2.4: Make entry into aircraft records to show the accomplishment of this battey installation, including change of the aircraft weight and balance if the the replacement battery has a weight different from the battery being replaced. Refer to the flight manual of appropriate document to determine station number of battery location.
Click to expand...
 
Tom-D said:
Because if you read it, it will tell you what to do about the W&B and what data to use.X pounds at X inches, etc

The FAA has tested and inspected the data during the STC certification, and if the STC does not direct the data to use, then they have considered it insignificant. and the W&B need not be changed.

5 pounds at a small arm may be just that, and not move the Empty weight CG any.
Click to expand...

I believe you are mistaken on this matter. First off five pounds is a significant change in empty weight and that requires a W&B change. Look at the POH and see that either the G25 or the G35 may be used but the W&B must be changed. Now look at how many aircraft are covered by the Concorde STC. Do you really think it says anything more than adjust W&B? Since the POH has the arms and batteries can be weighed nothing else is really required. The W&B change is required by regs and further mention in the STC would be redundant.

I've had a lot of STC'd mods over the last year. I just looked at the intercooler install and it says nothing about moment arms but clearly a new W&B was required.
 
COFlyBoy said:
Tom,
I looked up the installation instructions that came with the STC for the concorde battery.
Click to expand...


There ya go, follow the instructions......

""
Step 2.4: Make entry into aircraft records to show the accomplishment of this battery installation, including change of the aircraft weight and balance if the the replacement battery has a weight different from the battery being replaced. Refer to the flight manual of appropriate document to determine station number of battery location.
Today 07:11 PM ""
 
Tom-D said:
Yes it does, so, what is the limit to insignificant ?

Answer.

what ever the inspector will allow on that installation.
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No.

Per FAA Advisory Circular 43.13-1B (Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair), Chapter 10 (WEIGHT AND BALANCE), paragraph 10.1(c):

Negligible Weight Change is any change of one pound or less for aircraft whose weight empty is less than 5,000 pounds; two pounds or less for aircraft whose weight empty is more than 5,000 and 50,000 pounds; and five pounds or less for aircraft whose weight empty is more than 50,000 pounds. Negligible c. g. change is any change of less than 0.05% MAC for fixed wing aircraft, 0.2 percent of the maximum allowable c. g. range for rotary wing aircraft.
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So, less than one pound is negligible for your plane. (MAC = "Mean Aerodynamic Chord", btw. See para 10.1(m).)
 
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Jim_R said:
No.

Per FAA Advisory Circular 43.13-1B (Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair), Chapter 10 (WEIGHT AND BALANCE), paragraph 10.1(c):

So, less than one pound is negligible for your plane. (MAC = "Mean Aerodynamic Chord", btw. See para 10.1(m).)
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Remember the AC is just that.......its not law.

It is an Acceptable practice, but it isn't the only method that the FAA will allow.
 
Bottom line:

Like battery to like battery it's owner maintenance, with a sign off in the maintenance records,

a battery upgrade is a modification using a STC and a 337 to place the change in the history records. A&P-IA for return to service.

The IA must insure that the Installation is IAW the STC. before they sign it, that is why any one installing the battery must use these instructions, and not install it wrong.

this STC also includes the ICAs for the battery continued airworthiness in future inspections. These instructions may say you must kiss this thing every 10 hours to be legal.. If you don't read the STC you may be in an unairworthy condition and not know it.
 
Tom-D said:
Remember the AC is just that.......its not law.

It is an Acceptable practice, but it isn't the only method that the FAA will allow.
Click to expand...
While technically true, in this particular instance with the criteria spelled out so clearly and no obvious rationale to drive any deviations, I think it's unlikely that you will find a representative of the Administrator who will so deviate.

At any rate, if you fall inside the AC-specified criteria, you can feel pretty safe. Outside the criteria...you're in the wilderness and vulnerable, dependent on the kindness of an FAA rep to grant you safe haven. Not a happy place to be.
 
Tom-D said:
Bottom line:

Like battery to like battery it's owner maintenance, with a sign off in the maintenance records,

a battery upgrade is a modification using a STC and a 337 to place the change in the history records. A&P-IA for return to service.

The IA must insure that the Installation is IAW the STC. before they sign it, that is why any one installing the battery must use these instructions, and not install it wrong.

this STC also includes the ICAs for the battery continued airworthiness in future inspections. These instructions may say you must kiss this thing every 10 hours to be legal.. If you don't read the STC you may be in an unairworthy condition and not know it.
Click to expand...

Gee, now why did I expect Tom to be realistic instead of pointing out what has already been said and then follow that with possible fantasies...

A little common sense goes a long way.
 
5 pounds on the fire wall is one thing. My battery is out in the tail (to counter a rather nose heavy cg issue for the big engine).
 
flyingron said:
5 pounds on the fire wall is one thing. My battery is out in the tail (to counter a rather nose heavy cg issue for the big engine).
Click to expand...


What documentation tells you what action to take?

Was the location of the battery the manufacturers idea? or yours ?

Was the aircraft certified that way? or is that a modification?
 
So I can do all my own maintenance as long as the A&P signs off on it right ?
 
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