Overspray

iflyvfr

iflyvfr

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Columbus, OH
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Greg
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KTZR - Bolton Field
Well, I had my cowling & spinner repainted and confirmed yesterday that they did not seal my windscreen (seriously an A/C repair shop?). It feels like sandpaper.

I read some old posts that recommend clay bar on the windscreen. Is this still the best advice running?

I have MEK but don't want to go there...

Thanks!

Greg
 
can't speak from experience, but a clay bar sounds pretty good
 
So, some other shop/person oversprayed your windscreen, and you want advice on how to fix it? I have an idea, but it has no relationship to abrasives. I'd be at the shop right now, and if no satisfaction there, I'd be at the county courthouse next.
 
wait, do you mean they didn't take the cowling and spinner to paint them?
 
I'd get photos and an independent observation for future reference.
 
docmirror said:
So, some other shop/person oversprayed your windscreen, and you want advice on how to fix it? I have an idea, but it has no relationship to abrasives. I'd be at the shop right now, and if no satisfaction there, I'd be at the county courthouse next.
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I know, I know. Look, I'm not including all the details, but I'm willing to do the claybar to save my windscreen (it's not new, but is clear and functional).

OTOH, when his guy delivered my plane back to the hangar, they had also done my nosepant which had been all banged up. Well, it had a nice new chip in the paint where the guy dropped the tow bar on it. :mad2:

Now THAT I'm willing to drag his butt behind the barn for as I have tons of corroborating witnesses. But he promised he'd fix it so as long as I can clear up my windscreen with some claybar I'm moving on.

It doesn't mean he shouldn't know about the shoddy workmanship of his painter, but in my years of ownership, its never ceased to amaze me how many people in the business have no idea how to separate a/c owners from their money in positive, constructive ways. It's like it is some kind of rivals race to the bottom. Whether he cares or not I don't know, but I will surely find out.
 
Bob Noel said:
wait, do you mean they didn't take the cowling and spinner to paint them?
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Yes the spinner came off, but I was told the cowling was back on when they painted it. I was on vacation and not present for the actual work.

The color match and finish looks great, I'm very pleased but dumbfounded about the overspray.

Oh, they also did my wingtips and put a vinyl finish on the tail and those came out great, so its not all bad by any means.
 
iflyvfr said:
Yes the spinner came off, but I was told the cowling was back on when they painted it. I was on vacation and not present for the actual work.

The color match and finish looks great, I'm very pleased but dumbfounded about the overspray.

Oh, they also did my wingtips and put a vinyl finish on the tail and those came out great, so its not all bad by any means.
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So they painted over the screws?

I'm sorry for the thread hijacking, but I'm dumbfounded at how anyone can properly paint a cowling while it is still on the aircraft. Nevermind using proper ventilation.
 
Test clay bar on the side window corner first.
 
Bob Noel said:
So they painted over the screws?

I'm sorry for the thread hijacking, but I'm dumbfounded at how anyone can properly paint a cowling while it is still on the aircraft. Nevermind using proper ventilation.
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Yeah, cannot say for sure Bob. Screws are not painted over. It was just the front portion of the cowling, where I had had some fiberglass work done to repair where the three small screws attach next to the prop. We'd never repainted so "while we were in there" doing the wingtips, the nose pant and the spinner, he did the upper lip of the top cowling that faces forward.

It all looks great, except for the chip in the nose pant and the gravelly windscreen.
 
We use claybar when we get overspray on cars when we use polyurethane roofing. It goes the job well.
 
OK, I'll be sure to test a spot first and report my results back for the good of the order. I've used claybar before and it does a real nice job cleaning up the oxidation on the paint.
 
iflyvfr said:
OK, I'll be sure to test a spot first and report my results back for the good of the order. I've used claybar before and it does a real nice job cleaning up the oxidation on the paint.
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Use a lot of finish spray with the clay bar. Check Meguiars for the stuff to use. Don't let it get sticky, should be smooth moving the whole time. You'll actually feel the clay taking off the contaminants and then feels perfectly smooth when they're gone. Follow up with some polish and don't forget the Pledge, just to make everybody here happy....!
 
I painted my plane. I've never heard of claybar. If it's used on cars, I'd avoid. There's no plexiglass on cars.

Obviously they should fix it to your satisfaction. Given their performance so far, I might decide to take care of it myself as well.

I would suggest trying some solvents. Definitely not MEK, rather starting at the other end of things first try plain 'ol mineral spirits or paint thinner. Not exactly the same things but close. I recommend mineral spirits. Try it on an out of the way spot before doing anything rash but I think you'll find that doesn't hurt the plexi.

If that isn't effective or effective enough, try a mix of mineral spirits and acetone - say 60:40. That's worked well for me in removing polyurethate overspray and other crap on plexi. No damage so far.

If that doesn't work I'd stop there and put them back on the hook for this major screw up. If you decide to go further, try a stronger acetone solution but be careful - things can start to go south quick based on experiences I've heard from others.

The sooner you address this the better if polyurethane is involved. It continues to cure for days and probably to a certain extent, weeks. The sooner the easier to remove.

Be mindful of the application material. I'd use some of those pricey, disposable purpose-made plexiglass wipes from Dow I think. Clean cotton cloth is okay too. Paper anything is not okay.

Remember to clean any other dirt from the windshield before trying to get the overspray off so you don't grind scratches into it.
 
Why wouldn't the shop be responsible ,to make it right. Is there more to the story?
 
Thanks MauleDriver, appreciate the insight. There really isn't any more to the story except he has been paid in full. We agreed he would do this paint work for me while I was on vacation. He did everything I asked and more (painted the prop and washed the entire plane).

Unfortunately, one of his workers dinged my nose pant while delivering it to the hangar where I picked it up. When I got back to my hangar that evening and went to clean the windshield, I thought it felt rough but I wasn't in good light and it was the end of the day.

Well yesterday in full daylight I decided to take my cleaner and polish (the green & blue cans) and have a go at the windshield. That's when I became convinced they'd over sprayed it.

The field where the work was done is 40 mins fly time away and once on the ground there, 3 or 4 others confirmed there was over spray on the windscreen. I could see a little orange paint which is what they used.

I will be reasonable with the business owner. If I can claybar the windshield to my satisfaction, I'll get the nosepant chip fixed and be on my way. If I cannot get the windscreen fixed to my satisfaction, then the shop owner and I will need to have another, more pointed discussion.

At this point, he doesn't know about the windscreen, and he's assured me he will fix the nose pant, so I'm not worried. Due to my pragmatic nature, I assume this won't go well and I'll end up in a pee contest with the guy, but I'd really prefer not to. :rolleyes:
 
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iflyvfr said:
Well, I had my cowling & spinner repainted and confirmed yesterday that they did not seal my windscreen (seriously an A/C repair shop?). It feels like sandpaper.

I read some old posts that recommend clay bar on the windscreen. Is this still the best advice running?

I have MEK but don't want to go there...

Thanks!

Greg
Click to expand...

NO MEK! Clay bar will work if you don't have a buffer. Personally I use a buffer with a white compound then a glaze.
 
Consider that most problems with plexi involve scratching and polishing with abrasives is an obvious solution. Filling scratches with non-abrasive polishes is another approach (I think that's what Pledge does). My sense is that some of the 'everyday' plexi-polishes combine the two approaches to some degree.

I've never gotten to the point where I've had to use one of the plexi polishing systems to clear up a worn windscreen so I'm not experienced here but here's some more uninformed advice...

You don't have scratches. Rather you have a material stuck to the surface. Ideally you'd like to remove the material and leave the plexi untouched. That's why I'm thinking that a solvent based approach would be ideal if it were able to remove the material. To the list of solvents one could add Kerosene and white gas - both of which I've played with but found them ineffective on the surface contaminants I was working with (polyurethane overspray and contact cement). I don't suggest trying these because I don't think they'll work but they won't harm your plexi.

Ultimately, an abrasive system will fix the problem but it may get more involved than you want. I'm thinking that if the paint is harder than the plexi, you may find that a pretty rough abrasive may be required along with an enormous amount of effort to get it all off and return the plexi back to clear.

But again, I have no experience with abrasive polishers removing contaminants so....

Good luck with this. The good news is that it is definitely fixable. Please let us know how it works out.
 
Clay bar should be the first thing to try. Forget the "lubricant" they include in kits. Just use soapy water, it is easier and better.

Clay is not much of an abrasive. It mills off the particles that rest on the paints surface.
 
kgruber said:
Clay bar should be the first thing to try. Forget the "lubricant" they include in kits. Just use soapy water, it is easier and better.

Clay is not much of an abrasive. It mills off the particles that rest on the paints surface.
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Most that poo poo clay don't know what it is, or how to use it, or what it's for. Have used a clay bar on paint jobs way more expensive than your windshield. Those polishes are polishing material off everything it touches including good plexiglass that doesn't need it. You can polish a car until you are blue in the face and not get off the contaminants, which is why any shop starts with the clay. Try it. Go polish your hood with polishing compound and wax it. Then feel it, still has crap on it under the wax! Try the clay bar once, it will feel like glass. Polish and solvents are the wrong products for this situation.

Can't imagine any decent paint more than a couple hours old is going to come off with mineral spirits or, for that matter, straight acetone. Like he said above it mills off the contaminants and you can actually feel it doing it. Works on Porsche and Jaguar paint....good enough for plexiglass. Never tried soapy water, didn't want to experiment on my cars!
 
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The only time a pro finish shop uses a clay bar is when they either need to do a small spot, or want to charge an outrageous amount for a process that any minimum wage unskilled laborer can use without screwing up. A real finish shop will something like the 3M Finesse It or Perfect It systems. If they have skilled help they will first use a wool Superbuff II pad with the white compound (or start with orange Super Duty Rubbing Compound for a bad surface that doesn't quite need a wet sand) followed by a lambs wool Superbuff II pad and Glazing liquid. If the help is less skilled they'll set them up with the foam pads for the system which make it pretty hard to cause damage, but are easily torn up and don't work as well as the wool.

For future reference, whenever you drop something off for a bit of paint work, cover the surfaces you want to protect from overspray with Collenite Insulator Wax, apply and leave in place. When you get it back, go over it with fresh wax and you end up with a clean freshly waxed surface.
 
flyingriki, I have used clay on my a/c paint and you are right, the difference it makes is amazing. The finish was incredibly slippery. But you could definitely feel the oxidation coming off and the pigment of the paint showed up in the clay.

I do not want to get into a micromesh scenario where I'm scratching and buffing, that is more work than I want and I'm confident I won't be happy. IF I get to that point, I need to let the business owner know. In fact, I probably should put him on notice that there's this problem I'd like to try to fix myself but if I can't...I'm coming to him for help.

Man I wish I could head out there now, but I have schoolwork tonight. Maybe real quick tomorrow after work if I can find some clay...thanks all. I'll get a pic or three and let you know how it turns out.
 
iflyvfr said:
flyingriki, I have used clay on my a/c paint and you are right, the difference it makes is amazing. The finish was incredibly slippery. But you could definitely feel the oxidation coming off and the pigment of the paint showed up in the clay.

I do not want to get into a micromesh scenario where I'm scratching and buffing, that is more work than I want and I'm confident I won't be happy. IF I get to that point, I need to let the business owner know. In fact, I probably should put him on notice that there's this problem I'd like to try to fix myself but if I can't...I'm coming to him for help.

Man I wish I could head out there now, but I have schoolwork tonight. Maybe real quick tomorrow after work if I can find some clay...thanks all. I'll get a pic or three and let you know how it turns out.
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Clay bars are nothing more than bars of the solids used in buffing compound, not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying what it is. You will be able to get the job done with them no worries. Just avoid using any light end hydrocarbon solvents that will dissolve the paint, because all of them will cause damage to your windows. Anything that will cut polyurethane will also cut plexiglass.
 
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Doesn't sound like there's much pride in workmanship but not surprising these days. Have you paid him yet? Why should you have to clean up his poor job?
 
Henning said:
The only time a pro finish shop uses a clay bar is when they either need to do a small spot, or want to charge an outrageous amount for a process that any minimum wage unskilled laborer can use without screwing up. A real finish shop will something like the 3M Finesse It or Perfect It systems.
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Not true, sorry. I've buffed with Finesse-it II and gotten nowhere with surface contaminants. If they use that and buff enough to take them off they've taken half the clear coat off, or more everywhere other than under the contaminants! Sorry, just wrong. :dunno:

Think about that theory. You have bumps on the paint so you go after all of the surface with the same abrasive, a very fine one, but still an abrasive. So you're abrading the whole surface trying to knock off the bumps that the clay will do perfectly without any damage to the rest of the surface. If you grind away long enough they may come off but then you have worn the paint off everywhere else but under them! Not good, if it worked they wouldn't have clay, but it doesn't. I guess your idea of a pro shop is just different than mine...:yesnod:

I do use Finesse-it II on my canopy and it works great. Got a fresh bottle today at the paint store, price has gone up..... Gets me back to zero and perfectly clear with no haze or swirls. Then back to the laundered and bagged soft cotton and my favorite non-Pledge....
 
Henning said:
The only time a pro finish shop uses a clay bar is when they either need to do a small spot, or want to charge an outrageous amount for a process that any minimum wage unskilled laborer can use without screwing up. A real finish shop will something like the 3M Finesse It or Perfect It systems. If they have skilled help they will first use a wool Superbuff II pad with the white compound (or start with orange Super Duty Rubbing Compound for a bad surface that doesn't quite need a wet sand) followed by a lambs wool Superbuff II pad and Glazing liquid. If the help is less skilled they'll set them up with the foam pads for the system which make it pretty hard to cause damage, but are easily torn up and don't work as well as the wool.
Click to expand...

When you are done with all that, pull out the clay bar, because the contaminants will still be stuck on the surface.
 
flyingriki said:
Not true, sorry. I've buffed with Finesse-it II and gotten nowhere with surface contaminants. If they use that and buff enough to take them off they've taken half the clear coat off, or more everywhere other than under the contaminants! Sorry, just wrong. :dunno:

Think about that theory. You have bumps on the paint so you go after all of the surface with the same abrasive, a very fine one, but still an abrasive. So you're abrading the whole surface trying to knock off the bumps that the clay will do perfectly without any damage to the rest of the surface. If you grind away long enough they may come off but then you have worn the paint off everywhere else but under them! Not good, if it worked they wouldn't have clay, but it doesn't. I guess your idea of a pro shop is just different than mine...:yesnod:

I do use Finesse-it II on my canopy and it works great. Got a fresh bottle today at the paint store, price has gone up..... Gets me back to zero and perfectly clear with no haze or swirls. Then back to the laundered and bagged soft cotton and my favorite non-Pledge....
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That's why you don't start with FinesseIt II, you don't buff with it, you glaze with it. Start with Fine Buffing Compound. My first job was with a buffer and I still use one quite frequently on quarter million dollar + paint jobs as well as plastics and varnished surfaces.

I have nothing against clay bars and there is no difference between using them and an equal grit buffing compound, it just takes a lot longer and is a lot more work. Again, as I said before, it's difficult to damage the finish with them which is why they are used.
 
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Concur NO MEK!!
I seriously doubt any plastic cleaner is going to remove the overspray either. Clay bar will probably work. Keep the surface moist while going over it with the clay bar. Try a small area first but I think it will be fine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Henning said:
I have nothing against clay bars and there is no difference between using them and an equal grit buffing compound, it just takes a lot longer and is a lot more work.
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COMPLETELY untrue. Clay bar is not primarily a compound. It is used as a mill. It mills the contaminants, it does not grind them down like a rubbing compound.

Proper claying is very fast. I can do my entire C5 in 30 minutes.

Here is a good explanation of clay......note that it is NOT ABRASIVE.


""""Used properly, detailing clay is completely safe and nonabrasive.Its a much better option than polishing to remove these contaminants because clay doesn’t remove any paint.""""
 
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kgruber said:
COMPLETELY untrue. Clay bar is not primarily a compound. It is used as a mill. It mills the contaminants, it does not grind them down like a rubbing compound.

Proper claying is very fast. I can do my entire C5 in 30 minutes.

Here is a good explanation of clay......note that it is NOT ABRASIVE.


""""Used properly, detailing clay is completely safe and nonabrasive.Its a much better option than polishing to remove these contaminants because clay doesn’t remove any paint.""""
Click to expand...

AND you should never have to do it again if you put down a good coat of wax and keep it up. It's not like a normal part of a repeat process. But we obviously can't convince Henning of anything nor care to bother....:nono:
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Doesn't sound like there's much pride in workmanship but not surprising these days. Have you paid him yet? Why should you have to clean up his poor job?
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Yes, I paid him en toto and I believe its his worker's poor job more than his own. I believe he'd kill the kid if he didn't have to serve time.

I'm a relative "city slicker" and he's from a tiny town in southern Ohio. All I mean is there's a dynamic I don't wish to ruin as this is my favorite hangout airport where I have friends who just enjoy flying and shooting the breeze; a nice reprieve from the stress and go-fast of the work week, you know?

I don't wish to be identified as a troublemaker if I can solve the issue myself with a little effort. Besides, it's therapy. Nothing better than creeping along under the belly (or windscreen) cleaning and waxing my baby.
 
As promised, I wanted to post my results. Last night I went to the garage and found the McGuires Claybar I got last time from Autozone or someplace and still had some of the wetting agent. Armed as such, I went to the hangar right from work and carefully cleaned the windshield with soap and water, then gave it a try.

I couldn't help but be impressed by just how much over spray there was. The windshield was coated, and I got pretty anxious. The moron who committed this sin must really hate the boss or something, it was ridiculous. :mad2: See the first photo, download and blow it up to be impressed yourself! :eek:

However, that claybar did the trick. My windshield has never been cleaner and though far from free of imperfection, it looks pretty good. Take a look. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxRCx-rLC62NS09Tb2lsb1I4QXc&usp=sharing

It took me all of an hour, mostly because once the outside was clean, the inside clearly needed attention too.

In the end, I got to rub on my baby and the windscreen looks way better than when I dropped it off. Tonight, I call this a win.
 
I never thought of using a claybar... And it looks like it worked like a champ.

Thanks

John
 
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In the course of touching up Miss Piggy in preparation for the Cessna 120-140 national convention, i ended up with some light, dry overspray on the windscreen. To my relief, it came off very easily with some helicopter windscreen cleaner that i had gotten from Sporty's a few years ago.

My hangar neighbor uses blue paper shop towels and NON AMMONIA 409 household cleaner on his windscreens and they come out beautifully. The NON AMMONIA part is very important.

Hope this helps
 
docmirror said:
So, some other shop/person oversprayed your windscreen, and you want advice on how to fix it? I have an idea, but it has no relationship to abrasives. I'd be at the shop right now, and if no satisfaction there, I'd be at the county courthouse next.
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Glad you fixed it.

Yep, they did sloppy work and damaged the aircraft.

I would have taken it back, had them fix it or replace the windshield, anything outside from a "sorry, we'll fix it right away" and I would go to the court house, then the FSDO.

This is the problem with most aviation paint and upholstery shops, you tend to get better work from a cheap automotive place, or in bubba's garage with his Sears compressor and gun, and for 1/10 the price too.:dunno:
Never ceases to amaze me.
 
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