Overlfying Canada on a VFR flight plan - do I need to contact Canadian ATC?

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MountainDude

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MountainDude
I want to fly over the Canadian Rockies in July (border is still closed, so no landings there). Would take off from northern Idaho, fly for a few hours, and come back to the US. I will have a border-crossing VFR flight plan activated.

Can the US FSS give me a squawk code that will work over Canada, or I must obtain it from Canadian ATC?
Must I contact Canadian ATC to let me into Canada?
Must I be in contact with them at all times?

Ideally, I would take off, ask US FSS to activate my flight plan and give me the squawk code. I would just fly over Canada without worrying about their ATC and come back to USA.

Thank you
 
MountainDude said:
I want to fly over the Canadian Rockies in July (border is still closed, so no landings there). Would take off from northern Idaho, fly for a few hours, and come back to the US. I will have a border-crossing VFR flight plan activated.

Can the US FSS give me a squawk code that will work over Canada, or I must obtain it from Canadian ATC?
Must I contact Canadian ATC to let me into Canada?
Must I be in contact with them at all times?

Ideally, I would take off, ask US FSS to activate my flight plan and give me the squawk code. I would just fly over Canada without worrying about their ATC and come back to USA.

Thank you
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Every time I’ve crossed, I have been on an IFR flight plan. The passing off to the next controller was seamless, whether Canadian or US ATC.
 
MountainDude said:
Those rules apply if you are landing in Canada and do not address my question.
Click to expand...
So what happens if you need to land unexpectedly and have not complied with the rules?

I’d sure as hell have my passport with me.
 
I just did this. I file a VFR plan, start flight following with American ATC (yes, yes, these are separate systems and the one does not influence the other) and then over fly Canada to land at an American airport. In my case, I'm flying over Canada near Detroit.

I carry my passport with me (not the passport card, as that is insufficient) in case I need to land.
 
Salty said:
So what happens if you need to land unexpectedly and have not complied with the rules?

I’d sure as hell have my passport with me.
Click to expand...

When I talked to Customs and Border Patrol they said if you have to land unexpectedly in Canada just do what you would do for coming back normally as soon as you can. Canada didn't care when I talked to them.
 
This reply is copied from a different thread regarding cross-border flights without landing:

You need to be on an active VFR or IFR flight plan when the flight crosses the border.
Unless you land outside of the US, there is no Customs notification requirement by eAPIS or phone.
ADIZ rules apply on the southern border, but there is no ADIZ on the US/Canada border. So no DVFR flight plan needed there.

See AIM 5-6-5
Civil Aircraft Operations To or From U.S. Territorial Airspace
  1. Civil aircraft, except as described in subparagraph 5-6-5b below, are authorized to operate to or from U.S. territorial airspace if in compliance with all of the following conditions:
    1. File and are on an active flight plan (IFR, VFR, or DVFR);
    2. Are equipped with an operational transponder with altitude reporting capability, and continuously squawk an ATC assigned transponder code;
    3. Maintain two-way radio communications with ATC;
    4. Comply with all other applicable ADIZ requirements described in paragraph 5-6-4 and any other national security requirements in paragraph 5-6-2;
    5. Comply with all applicable U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) requirements, including Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) requirements (see subparagraph 5-6-5c below for CBP APIS information), in accordance with 19 CFR Part 122, Air Commerce Regulations; ... etc

Note that the phrase "ATC assigned transponder code" above does not mean a discrete code, An interpretation from over a decade ago states that 1200 is the ATC assigned code for VFR flights. To answer your specific questions. US FSS can issue a discrete code for you for a border crossing, but this would not be valid in Canadian airspace. Unless there is a temporary rule of which I am not aware, you are not required to be in contact with Canadian ATC except in areas where controlled VFR applies. You are not required to be receiving radar service from ATC to cross the border. In fact for much of the northern border, you will not be visible to Centers at sightseeing altitudes. Contacting FSS before crossing and advising you will maintain a listening watch can meet this requirement. As always, the NOTAM to monitor 121.5 applies.

So what happens if you need to land unexpectedly and have not complied with the rules?
An emergency allows for deviation from any of these rules to the extent necessary.

Jon
 
MountainDude said:
Those rules apply if you are landing in Canada and do not address my question.
Click to expand...

They do address it because an intention to land or overfly isn't relevant to the border crossing. You have to be on an international flight plan and talking to ATC. In the US, if you show up unannounced into the ADIZ, you're going to have some explaining to do. Similar with Canada.

Customs is not required if you don't land, but as noted you should still have your passport with you just in case you do have to land.
 
Justin M said:
I just did this. I file a VFR plan, start flight following with American ATC (yes, yes, these are separate systems and the one does not influence the other) and then over fly Canada to land at an American airport. In my case, I'm flying over Canada near Detroit.

I carry my passport with me (not the passport card, as that is insufficient) in case I need to land.
Click to expand...

Just curious why. I have no intention of overflying Canada and I have both a passport and a card ... but I thought the card was sufficient for travel into Canada?
 
4CornerFlyer said:
Not exactly. There is no ADIZ on the US-Canada border in either direction. The rules are different.
Jon
Click to expand...

of course there isn’t an ADIZ, there is no room for one. But the rules aren’t different, there just isn’t a buffer.
 
woodchucker said:
Just curious why. I have no intention of overflying Canada and I have both a passport and a card ... but I thought the card was sufficient for travel into Canada?
Click to expand...
The US passport card can be used at land and sea ports of entry in Canada, Mexico, etc. Not at airports.
 
4CornerFlyer said:
This reply is copied from a different thread regarding cross-border flights without landing:

You need to be on an active VFR or IFR flight plan when the flight crosses the border.
Unless you land outside of the US, there is no Customs notification requirement by eAPIS or phone.
ADIZ rules apply on the southern border, but there is no ADIZ on the US/Canada border. So no DVFR flight plan needed there.

See AIM 5-6-5
Civil Aircraft Operations To or From U.S. Territorial Airspace
  1. Civil aircraft, except as described in subparagraph 5-6-5b below, are authorized to operate to or from U.S. territorial airspace if in compliance with all of the following conditions:
    1. File and are on an active flight plan (IFR, VFR, or DVFR);
    2. Are equipped with an operational transponder with altitude reporting capability, and continuously squawk an ATC assigned transponder code;
    3. Maintain two-way radio communications with ATC;
    4. Comply with all other applicable ADIZ requirements described in paragraph 5-6-4 and any other national security requirements in paragraph 5-6-2;
    5. Comply with all applicable U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) requirements, including Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) requirements (see subparagraph 5-6-5c below for CBP APIS information), in accordance with 19 CFR Part 122, Air Commerce Regulations; ... etc

Note that the phrase "ATC assigned transponder code" above does not mean a discrete code, An interpretation from over a decade ago states that 1200 is the ATC assigned code for VFR flights. To answer your specific questions. US FSS can issue a discrete code for you for a border crossing, but this would not be valid in Canadian airspace. Unless there is a temporary rule of which I am not aware, you are not required to be in contact with Canadian ATC except in areas where controlled VFR applies. You are not required to be receiving radar service from ATC to cross the border. In fact for much of the northern border, you will not be visible to Centers at sightseeing altitudes. Contacting FSS before crossing and advising you will maintain a listening watch can meet this requirement. As always, the NOTAM to monitor 121.5 applies.

So what happens if you need to land unexpectedly and have not complied with the rules?
An emergency allows for deviation from any of these rules to the extent necessary.

Jon
Click to expand...

Thank you for this info. Very helpful. The only confusing part is that under (3) it says you have to be in contact with ATC. Are you saying that applies only to the US ATC?
 
iamtheari said:
The US passport card can be used at land and sea ports of entry in Canada, Mexico, etc. Not at airports.
Click to expand...

That's not true. The passport card can only be used at US land and sea ports arriving from WHTI countries. Canada and Mexico make their own rules and they don't necessarily require passports.
 
bflynn said:
of course there isn’t an ADIZ, there is no room for one. But the rules aren’t different, there just isn’t a buffer.
Click to expand...
Your statement does not agree with either to AOPA article or what the FAA officer said when I was in Lansing MI. Coming back I could go north of Lake Erie and overfly Canada or south and stay in the States.
The FAA said file an ICAO flight plan and activate it, put in the remarks Canada Overflight. If VFR make sure to get a squawk code. Legally if VFR flight following is not required, however if you do not get it, you increase the chance CBP will take an interest, on either side. You need a Class 3 medical or higher, Canada does NOT recognize BasicMed. And carry a passport, not the card, in case you have to land. Technically an emergency does not require you have your passport, but it adds a lot of extra work for you and Customs on both borders if you do not have it.

Tim

Typo fixed.
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
4CornerFlyer said:
So what happens if you need to land unexpectedly and have not complied with the rules?
An emergency allows for deviation from any of these rules to the extent necessary.
Click to expand...

Do “these rules” include those requiring a passport?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Do “these rules” include those requiring a passport?
Click to expand...
Yes. But you do NOT want to go that route. It is not cheap, easy or quick.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
N1120A said:
That's not true. The passport card can only be used at US land and sea ports arriving from WHTI countries. Canada and Mexico make their own rules and they don't necessarily require passports.
Click to expand...
Wrong preposition on my part. I had assumed that a person would eventually want to return to the USA after his unplanned landing in Canada. The point is that the passport card is not a sufficient travel document for air travel.
 
Just an FYI, If you do end up talking to Canadian ATC toy WILL get a bill from NAV Canada a few months down the line.
 
edessa said:
Just an FYI, If you do end up talking to Canadian ATC toy WILL get a bill from NAV Canada a few months down the line.
Click to expand...
Only if you land in Canada. Overflight is not supposed to bill you.

T8m

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
iamtheari said:
Wrong preposition on my part. I had assumed that a person would eventually want to return to the USA after his unplanned landing in Canada. The point is that the passport card is not a sufficient travel document for air travel.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that he should carry a passport anyway, but I was strictly stating the actual requirements.
 
tspear said:
Your statement does not agree with either to AOPA article or what the FAA officer said when I was in Lansing MI. Coming back I could go north of Lake Erie and overfly Canada or south and stay in the States.
The FAA said file an ICAO flight plan and activate it, put in the remarks Canada Overflight. If VFR make sure to get a squawk code. Legally if VFR flight following is not required, however if you do not get it, you increase the chance CBP will take an interest, on either side. You need a Class 3 medical or higher, Canada does recognize BasicMed. And carry a passport, not the card, in case you have to land. Technically an emergency does not require you have your passport, but it adds a lot of extra work for you and Customs on both borders if you do not have it.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I realize that the VFR flights with FF may be handled somewhat differently than IFR overflight, but when I travelled several times on an IFR from Buffalo to Michigan, and the reverse, the usual IFR flight plan was filed without repercussions. Also never charged any Canadian ATC fees. However, as mentioned, if you land in Canada, plan on it, often with a lengthy billing cycle after your trip.
 
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