Overflying Canada from 57D Ray Community

RV10flyer

RV10flyer

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We flew up to 57D on Saturday afternoon to visit family. Conditions were mvfr from departure until Toledo. We had flight following. We had a nice 30 kt headwind at 2500' with moderate chop and great visibility. There was icing in the clouds from 4-14000', so we did not hear many other aircraft on the radio. We flew low around Detroit's Bravo an hour before the Pres TFR activated. We had a challenging landing at 57D on Rwy 27, 2285' X 60', with 17G23 from 350 deg at Selfridge ANG base. No flaps, 80 kt final approach speed. We made it just fine. The kids in back provided an unusually sterile cockpit from final until taxiing to parking. They are not used to seeing the ground so close to the wing tip, a stiff windsock and riding on one wheel for so long.

The guys at 57D were great, fuel was cheaper than what I am used to at home. The fuel machine cuts off at $75, so you may have to enter your CC twice. We parked inside an older hangar North of the terminal building and plugged our engine heater in for the night.

We filed a vfr flight plan with "Canada overflight" in the remarks. We had nice 57F oil temp on startup Sun afternoon. We contacted Selfridge App 119.6 after takeoff, got a squawk code, then a quick handoff to Detroit App in the climb to 10500. Detroit immediately gave us clearance through the bravo and handed us off to Toledo Ctr later. We had a 20-25 kt tailwind going home, 1.3 hrs, getting 19 nm/gal and burning 15 gallons of fuel. Compared to 2 hrs, 12 nm/gal and burning 25 gallons coming up.

We hope some of you got out in the beautiful sunny weather yesterday too.
 
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I flew over Canada on the way to Niagara Falls from that area a few years ago, just North of Detroit to KIAG. We stayed on the Canadian side, but easier to land in the USA.

If the winds are forecast to get somewhat up there, I like options in the back pocket. In that area Romeo State with runway 36 is an easy way to remove the drama(not that those winds were extreme). I always hear good stuff about 57D.
 
Last time I called FSS to file that route I mentioned putting that in the remarks and the briefer said "I have been doing this for 20 years and have never heard of that"

/sigh
 
When I request flight following ,just give destination. Have never included phrase " overfly Canada."
 
sourdough44 said:
I flew over Canada on the way to Niagara Falls from that area a few years ago, just North of Detroit to KIAG. We stayed on the Canadian side, but easier to land in the USA.

If the winds are forecast to get somewhat up there, I like options in the back pocket. In that area Romeo State with runway 36 is an easy way to remove the drama(not that those winds were extreme). I always hear good stuff about 57D.
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We did have the Romeo alternate on my kneeboard just in case things did not feel right after kicking the crab out. I was also considering rwy 36(turf/paved), but needed some xw practice more than soft field. The winds were reported at Selfridge. At 80 kts, I still had some rudder remaining, but at gross weight with marginally sized brakes, 2285' is plenty short enough. I have used full flaps, 70 kts with 25 kt direct xw and hit the rudder stop. Always prepared to go around.
 
frfly172 said:
When I request flight following ,just give destination. Have never included phrase " overfly Canada."
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As noted in my orig post, I mentioned this to the LM briefer while filing the vfr flight plan, not to Selfridge App. My first fp in several years. I made a note to myself and my wife to remind me to close it once parked at the fuel pump. Been there done that...just one reason I rarely file.
 
RV10flyer said:
We did have the Romeo alternate on my kneeboard just in case things did not feel right after kicking the crab out. I was also considering rwy 36(turf/paved), but needed some xw practice more than soft field. The winds were reported at Selfridge. At 80 kts, I still had some rudder remaining, but at gross weight with marginally sized brakes, 2285' is plenty short enough. I have used full flaps, 70 kts with 25 kt direct xw and hit the rudder stop. Always prepared to go around.
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D98 is nice but not exactly homey... :(
 
Glad you enjoyed your stop at Ray! It's one of the Michigan airports I miss the most, and not just because I had my first flight lesson there -- lots of friendly people, coffee and donuts if you're game, lots of interesting airplanes coming and going, and good conversation in the terminal. Its slogan is well-deserved - "friendliest little airport in Michigan".

Since moving out here I've been looking for an airport like 57D. The closest thing I've found is 2B3, Parlin Field in Newport, NH. There's even a diner on field there, and the setting is far more picturesque than at 57D. Definitely a keeper... but I still miss Ray Community.
 
azure said:
Glad you enjoyed your stop at Ray! It's one of the Michigan airports I miss the most, and not just because I had my first flight lesson there -- lots of friendly people, coffee and donuts if you're game, lots of interesting airplanes coming and going, and good conversation in the terminal. Its slogan is well-deserved - "friendliest little airport in Michigan".

Since moving out here I've been looking for an airport like 57D. The closest thing I've found is 2B3, Parlin Field in Newport, NH. There's even a diner on field there, and the setting is far more picturesque than at 57D. Definitely a keeper... but I still miss Ray Community.
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We stopped at VSF to your West on the way to and from Maine this summer. Very pretty too, good fuel price and nice people.
 
RV10flyer said:
We stopped at VSF to your West on the way to and from Maine this summer. Very pretty too, good fuel price and nice people.
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Good idea! I've stopped at VSF several times now for fuel, but never been inside the terminal. No particular reason except that it's usually late when I get there and it's a long walk to the terminal. But everyone I've met there so far has been really friendly too -- especially the manager who literally GAVE me 8 gallons for free when I discovered that his fuel pump was OTS.

Another Michigan airport to check out is Clare Municipal, 48D. Generally low fuel prices and very friendly people: the first time I landed there, the owner (can't remember his name!) invited me in for ice cream.
 
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So help me understand this.. is an APIS required if your are just crossing into Canada's airspace then back to US without landing ? Or is this even required?

Or did your direct route take you into Canada's airspace and back out. If you are on Flight Following that's ok ? Did you have to have an active Flight Plan ?

Thanks!
 
You do not need an eAPIS unless you land in Canada. You do, however, need to be on an active flight plan with a discrete squawk code in order to overfly Canada.
 
azure said:
You do not need an eAPIS unless you land in Canada. You do, however, need to be on an active flight plan with a discrete squawk code in order to overfly Canada.
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:yes:

I was surprised not to get handed off to Canadian ATC. We went straight from Detroit App to Cleveland Ctr. I went high for efficiency, tailwind and enable an engine out glide to a US airport.
 
RV10flyer said:
:yes:

I was surprised not to get handed off to Canadian ATC. We went straight from Detroit App to Cleveland Ctr. I went high for efficiency, tailwind and enable an engine out glide to a US airport.
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It is a good thing too. If you get handed off to Canadian ATC they send you a quarterly bill, no joke.

Flights across Windsor between US destinations in my experience are almost exactly like flights in the US with the exception of basically being required to be on a flight plan and flight following.
 
ChrisK said:
It is a good thing too. If you get handed off to Canadian ATC they send you a quarterly bill, no joke.

Flights across Windsor between US destinations in my experience are almost exactly like flights in the US with the exception of basically being required to be on a flight plan and flight following.
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I have overflown Canada quite a few times, even flying the northern edge of Lake Erie and talking to Canadian ATC a few times, and have never gotten a bill. This post will probably jinx me for the next time :rolleyes:
 
DGlaeser said:
I have overflown Canada quite a few times, even flying the northern edge of Lake Erie and talking to Canadian ATC a few times, and have never gotten a bill. This post will probably jinx me for the next time :rolleyes:
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Well they SAY they will bill you!
 
RV10flyer said:
We flew up to 57D on Saturday afternoon to visit family. Conditions were mvfr from departure until Toledo. We had flight following. We had a nice 30 kt headwind at 2500' with moderate chop and great visibility. There was icing in the clouds from 4-14000', so we did not hear many other aircraft on the radio. We flew low around Detroit's Bravo an hour before the Pres TFR activated. We had a challenging landing at 57D on Rwy 27, 2285' X 60', with 17G23 from 350 deg at Selfridge ANG base. No flaps, 80 kt final approach speed. We made it just fine. The kids in back provided an unusually sterile cockpit from final until taxiing to parking. They are not used to seeing the ground so close to the wing tip, a stiff windsock and riding on one wheel for so long.
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The -10 has exceptional rudder authority. I wouldn't lower the wing with those winds at all. I would just muscle the rudder to keep the nose straight and wings level. :D.
 
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DGlaeser said:
I have overflown Canada quite a few times, even flying the northern edge of Lake Erie and talking to Canadian ATC a few times, and have never gotten a bill. This post will probably jinx me for the next time :rolleyes:
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Well I did it 5 times in all this summer, full IFR in fact, and have yet to get a bill. So until someone reports actually getting a bill for an overflight, I'm going to file this one under "urban legends".

Someone at VLL (was it you Dennis, or maybe Greg?) told me that they only bill you if you use tower or ground services, not for approach enroute. So basically, you'd have to land, or transition through a tower-controlled airspace, to get a bill.

(But I have no idea whether that's true, and can't recall the source now, so don't quote me.)
 
Somewhat off topic.. but is it a big ordeal to file a VFR flight plan and eAPIS to land in Canada? I think it seems pretty straight forward but I would need to check with my insurance (AOPA) to see if I'm still covered there or not.
 
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