Outdoor airplanes in SoCal

RalphInCA

RalphInCA

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McMinnville, OR
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RalphInCA
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KMMV
I live in the LA area, San Gabriel Valley. So the weather is nice all year, no salt air, very dry, but the sun is intense.

How do airplanes do if they are outside all the time in this environment?
 
Full disclosure: I am thinking of getting my first airplane - probably a LSA or some other low and slow type airplane - and would like to know if I could save a few dollars (I know this is a very dangerous statement) by keeping it outside.
 
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As I'm sure you know, covered parking isn't cheap in Socal. When I did a little back of the napkin math myself, I came to the conclusion that I could paint the entire airplane and redo the interior every 5 years for what I'd save on hangar rent. Don't get me wrong - I'd love a hangar, but it's hard to justify around here, IMO, unless the money simply doesn't matter.
 
I have a composite,use custom covers for everything but the wings,since they are metal.covers can get costly ,but cheaper than a hangar. Use a group hangar when I. fLA ,very reasonable.
 
kayoh190 said:
As I'm sure you know, covered parking isn't cheap in Socal. When I did a little back of the napkin math myself, I came to the conclusion that I could paint the entire airplane and redo the interior every 5 years for what I'd save on hangar rent. Don't get me wrong - I'd love a hangar, but it's hard to justify around here, IMO, unless the money simply doesn't matter.
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Exactly this.

300/mo x 12 = $3600/yr x 5 years = one seriously badass paint job. every. five. years.

For me, I just fly a haggard-looking plane and sink the coin into avgas. My bonanza has actually revealled at least 3 sand-n-spray paint jobs in its 50 year tenure (white over blue over brown). As I continue flying, and as the leading edges continue to erode, it more and more resembles a striped pippi longstocking sock.

Once I get to the "Orange" or "Avocado Green" layer, though, I'm painting the ugly mofo. :D
 
300 is steep, I'd look at smaller outlining airports.

As for inside or outside, if it's something your buying that's nice I'd get a hangar, also prevents frost, costal salt and other junk, plus storage and power.

Biggest issue in CA is the their theft problem, the state really protects the subhuman trash so they are very over populated in CA, to the point I figured a grand or so in theft every year.

Shy of a ratted out 150 or something, I'd find a hangar or share a hangar with someone.
 
I don't know what kind of cost your talking about in your area, but having a hangar is really nice. I'd probably still consider it a luxury, but I'd give up other things in the plane before the hangar. Like others have said, it gives you a place to protect the plane. It also gives you a place to store stuff for the plane. I was in an open hangar for ~2 months before I got the closed hangar, and I had to bring everything I needed for the plane. Now I can keep all my cleaning supplies, oil, tools, etc at the hangar. At the very least, I'd use a cover, but it seems like a PITA to me.

If it means the difference b/t flying vs. not flying, then keep it outside. If you can swing it, I'd definitely get the hangar.
 
James331 said:
300 is steep, I'd look at smaller outlining airports.

As for inside or outside, if it's something your buying that's nice I'd get a hangar, also prevents frost, costal salt and other junk, plus storage and power.

Biggest issue in CA is the their theft problem, the state really protects the subhuman trash so they are very over populated in CA, to the point I figured a grand or so in theft every year.

Shy of a ratted out 150 or something, I'd find a hangar or share a hangar with someone.
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No real ongoing theft issue at my airport in CA. You paint with a pretty broad brush. California is a big state. That said, I enjoy having a hangar and actually pay a little more than $300. It is nice having power and a place to keep your stuff. Things like putting air in your tires only takes a few minutes. It is also a place to keep a fridge for cold refreshments and hangar flying after the flight.
 
You guys have brought up an interesting option - sharing with someone. As I get a little more serious about getting an airplane, I Will have to do some checking to see if this could be done.
 
John221us said:
No real ongoing theft issue at my airport in CA. You paint with a pretty broad brush. California is a big state. That said, I enjoy having a hangar and actually pay a little more than $300. It is nice having power and a place to keep your stuff. Things like putting air in your tires only takes a few minutes. It is also a place to keep a fridge for cold refreshments and hangar flying after the flight.
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San Diego to SF, every year I've had stuff stolen, and that's from nice areas.

The laws on that state protect criminals and tie the hands of citizens.
 
James331 said:
San Diego to SF, every year I've had stuff stolen, and that's from nice areas.

The laws on that state protect criminals and tie the hands of citizens.
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I have parked my plane outside over night many times in many parts of the state, including Redding, San Bernardino, Santa Barbara, Eureka, Little River, etc. and never had a theft issue in the five years I have been flying. I also know many other pilots who own planes in this fair state (go figure, I live here) and none of these friends have experienced a theft. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but it certainly isn't as prevalent as you are making it out to be. It is like saying you need to budget $1,000 a year for car theft. First; insurance will cover it and second; in my 52 years of living in both So. Cal and No. Cal, I have had my car broken into only once, years ago, when I was in college. :dunno:
 
Hi Ralph.
You may want to look at large hangar / company that will keep your bird and pull it out for you when you need it. I know of places like that in FUL, General Aviation etc. They are in the 3-400 / month range.
I know of LSAs, metal / Evektor that have been kept out for the last 8 years and still hold up / look fine. A external cover over the plastic areas should help, if it has a proper fit, otherwise it will damage the surfaces in windy days. An inside sunshade / cover seems to be the best compromise for SoCal. TV
 
John221us said:
I have parked my plane outside over night many times in many parts of the state, including Redding, San Bernardino, Santa Barbara, Eureka, Little River, etc. and never had a theft issue in the five years I have been flying. I also know many other pilots who own planes in this fair state (go figure, I live here) and none of these friends have experienced a theft. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but it certainly isn't as prevalent as you are making it out to be. It is like saying you need to budget $1,000 a year for car theft. First; insurance will cover it and second; in my 52 years of living in both So. Cal and No. Cal, I have had my car broken into only once, years ago, when I was in college. :dunno:
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So instead of paying for theft, you pay for all the crazy insurance.

Where I live I don't need to insure for theft.

Also in most civilized states you can shoot a thief with out needing a attorney on retainer, and victims have more right than subhuman trash, CA...not so much.
 
Is there an airport in SoCal where hangars are even available under 300? I'm thinking you'll end up out at Hemet or Banning to get there.

13 years of flying, never locked my door, always leave my Bose on the pilot yoke, keys in the ignition, tied on the ramp, never lost so much as a stick of gum.

If you want a free bonanza (heh, "needs paint") and are part of the protected trash, PM me for N number and location. :)
 
I'm based at KEMT, which is now the San Gabriel Valley Airport. Both my planes have been outside. I have reflectors up for the windscreen, but sure the paint takes a little bit of a beating. Nothing you couldn't counter with some:

1. Detailing. Joeys Detail on the airfield is a good guy that will do a full on detail job on a big twin for under $1K. For a small single I think he'll be under $500. Well worth it once or twice a year. Really protects the paint and the rain drops will just dance off the surface.

2. Buy covers from Bruce's Custom Airplane Covers up in NorCal. They have canopies and plugs for almost all types. Yeah, it'll set you back about $1K+, but it's a lot cheaper than a hangar.

Unfortunately hangar space is a premium in SoCal. Hard to come by and when you do it's expensive. At KEMT a hangar that can fit a smaller twin is $900/month. That's a lot of money. And when I get my new one which is even bigger, the price will go up to about $1200. Too much, I think. But I might change my mind.
 
Being left out year round, you will find the paint takes a beating and becomes weathered looking. Some airplanes that sit out at a local field near me have mildew on them.
 
stratobee said:
I'm based at KEMT, which is now the San Gabriel Valley Airport. Both my planes have been outside. I have reflectors up for the windscreen, but sure the paint takes a little bit of a beating. Nothing you couldn't counter with some:

1. Detailing. Joeys Detail on the airfield is a good guy that will do a full on detail job on a big twin for under $1K. For a small single I think he'll be under $500. Well worth it once or twice a year. Really protects the paint and the rain drops will just dance off the surface.

2. Buy covers from Bruce's Custom Airplane Covers up in NorCal. They have canopies and plugs for almost all types. Yeah, it'll set you back about $1K+, but it's a lot cheaper than a hangar.

Unfortunately hangar space is a premium in SoCal. Hard to come by and when you do it's expensive. At KEMT a hangar that can fit a smaller twin is $900/month. That's a lot of money. And when I get my new one which is even bigger, the price will go up to about $1200. Too much, I think. But I might change my mind.
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I had a plane at thermal, 200ish a month, same with PSP.

Maybe it's because everyone knew I would probably sit in their office laughing at pointing at them for a good hour if they tried to charge me a grand a month, or 500 to wash my plane.
 
You can get a (relatively) cheap hangar at Corona, you just better be prepared to move it out quickly if it is really going to rain hard (airport is behind a dam and will get flooded if the rains get heavy for several days).

The math on paint cost vs hangar cost is correct, except it leaves out the 6-8 weeks of down time, and the cost to replace all the other plastic that gets baked in the sun. On the occasion that a hail storm or big wind storm passes through, the hangar eliminates most all of the worry factor.

You pay your money and take your chances.
 
Get a nice plane and hangar it. When you take a buddy flying you don't want him to tell everyone you got that old ragged plane sitting out on the ramp. LOL!
 
pigpenracing said:
Get a nice plane and hangar it. When you take a buddy flying you don't want him to tell everyone you got that old ragged plane sitting out on the ramp. LOL!
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You imply a desire to have all manner of friends, acquaintances, and ne'er-do-wells ask for rides. :)
 
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