Our Jim G. has a mighty tough job

[AdamZ]

Our own Jim Gratton Public Defender extrodinaire made the national news. If you have been anywhere but under a rock for the past two weeks you have seen the new reports of the 18 yo boy who shot killed his 14 yo girlfriends parents In Lancaster PA then fled with the girl and was captured in Indiana.
Well our own Jim has been assigned to represent the 18 yo boy. Jim has got a real tough row to hoe on this one. Good luck to him. Here is the link. To one of the national stories mentioning Jim.

http://kevxml2adsl.verizon.net/_1_2IWMTO10DP7BKY__vzn.dsl/apnws/story.htm?kcfg=apart&feed=ap&sin=D8E15AE80&qcat=usnews&passqi=&top=1&ran=7262

 

[SCCutler]

How long, I wonder, before someone complains that "...criminals like that don't deserve a defense..." or something like that? Probably won't happen here, but might at the red board.

Took me a while, even as a lawyer, to realize how truly important a proper defense for every defendant is to the integrity of the system.

I imagine Mr. Gratton will give a top-notch defense, and bet a conviction will follow, and that'll be OK.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I have a fascination with the law. A very cerebral profession. At a regular party we have I try to sit next to a public defender. I am amazed and in awe at what they do, what goes on. Every day for them is very tough I think.

 

[SCCutler]

I have a fascination with the law. A very cerebral profession...

I keep hoping that, someday,I can get my very own cerebellum...

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I keep hoping that, someday,I can get my very own cerebellum...

Nah, Spike -can you walk a straight line and pour most of a soda into a glass? Your cerebellum's probably fine. The cerebrum is how you guys earn your money!

 

[Henning]

How long, I wonder, before someone complains that "...criminals like that don't deserve a defense..." or something like that? Probably won't happen here, but might at the red board.

Took me a while, even as a lawyer, to realize how truly important a proper defense for every defendant is to the integrity of the system.

I imagine Mr. Gratton will give a top-notch defense, and bet a conviction will follow, and that'll be OK.

I'll never say anybody doesn't deserve a defense. It's an 18 year old dude whose pecker is following around a 14 year old girl. I don't think the defense issue will be one of guilt phase, but rather mitigation and sentencing depending on the circumstances surrounding the statements. Sounds like the counsel that's going to have a time is the girls defender. Reading between the lines, I'd say the boy's statement has the girl as the mastermind of the plot, and in all her infinite 14 year old wisdom decided they needed to die after an arguement, and she talked him into offing them. I'd figure it's the kids best play. Wouldn't be nearly the first time it happened either. The way the D.A.'s going after video tape..., I'd bet it's in his head.

 

[Bill]

Well our own Jim has been assigned to represent the 18 yo boy. Jim has got a real tough row to hoe on this one. Good luck to him. Here is the link. To one of the national stories mentioning Jim.

Just a sad case, regardless of the outcome, the damage is already done. Back in highschool dating, maybe those crazy fathers that would just "happen" to be cleaning their guns when you arrived to pick up their little missy weren't so crazy after all.

 

[Anthony]

Plea deal, huh Jim? The accused has already admitted his guilt to the police. I would imagine this is going to be a negotiation for life in prison vs. the death penalty.

 

[astanley]

I keep hoping that, someday,I can get my very own cerebellum...

Law is like sausage: 90% grinding up parts no one wants to talk about, 10% eating it and enjoying it.

Cheers,

-Andrew
who spends way too much time doing contract law

 

[AdamZ]

Not speaking for Jim ( Keep in mind Jim probably can't say much of anything to us now to protect client confidences) But being in the same line of work I would say that Henning and Anthony have got a decent grasp of such situations. As horribly tragic as this is and wether one believe the kid deserves the death penalty or not, The burden on Jim and his trial team partner is immense! ( Even if the guy totally fessed up) When you are a factor in whether another human being lives or dies and your the one arguing for him to live Whooo wipe the sweat of my brow. Not to mention that public defenders bust their keisters for nominal pay and nominal resources inrelation to other legal jobs including prosecutors and get crapped on by everyone from the public to the client. Not to mention the hate mail and threats that many defense attorneys get when representing a high profile defendant. I have had peopel come up to me in parking lots and spit at my feet, Better than being spit on I guess. So my hats off to Jim.

 

[SCCutler]

Nah, Spike -can you walk a straight line and pour most of a soda into a glass? Your cerebellum's probably fine. The cerebrum is how you guys earn your money!

See, I can't even get brain parts right! Point made.

 

[Anthony]

So my hats off to Jim.

Mine too. I went theought the Leadership Lancaster program many years ago. (Yes, I used to live and work in Lancaster) I met a few public defenders and an assistant D.A. that were also in the program. The public defenders are super underated, even the DA agreed with that. They have such a tough job as almost everyone they represent is guilty or the DA wouldn't bring the case to trial.

Good luck Jim, we understand you can't talk about this horrible case right now. You deserve another L-39 flight.

 

[poadeleted3]

That's a tough case to land. Be interesting to see what he does with it.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

A proper and minimally expensive defense, trial, and conviction are in order.

 

[Henning]

Plea deal, huh Jim? The accused has already admitted his guilt to the police. I would imagine this is going to be a negotiation for life in prison vs. the death penalty.

Mark it on a calendar 13 years from today (if not sooner or is killed in prison) he will be on the streets. Strongly doubt death will be a realistic factor in this one, this situation doesn't come with mandatory sentencing, and realisticaly, it was a childs crime, a temper tantrum. She's obviously a juvenile, and while he is not, he is not far away, and there are many 18 year olds who are not capable of adult level decision making. There's I'd figure a 30% chance he can be out in 5 years.

On the local front in Aus, the big legal story here is an Aussie citizen was smuggling heroin back to Melbourne, got caught in Singapore with the stuff taped to his body (no question of guilt) transfering flights, and is due to hang in a week, Singapore having the death penalty for smuggling drugs. Well Aus doesn't have the death penalty and is all up in arms because one of there local heroin mules is gonna die. The government has been trying everything, no avail.

 

[ScottM]

On the local front in Aus, the big legal story here is an Aussie citizen was smuggling heroin back to Melbourne, got caught in Singapore with the stuff taped to his body (no question of guilt) transfering flights, and is due to hang in a week, Singapore having the death penalty for smuggling drugs. Well Aus doesn't have the death penalty and is all up in arms because one of there local heroin mules is gonna die. The government has been trying everything, no avail.

Singapore's justice can be interesting. It does say in big red letters on eh landing card "Death to Drug Traffickers". On one trip there I recall a person being caught at Changgi airport with heroin strapped to his body. He was on a flight that had layed over form Hong Kong to Frankfort. This happened on a Monday. On Tuesday the court heard arguments whether he was to be charged with possession or trafficking. The difference it was argued was that he had not passed through immigration therefore he was not trafficking in Singapore. The case was heard and it was decided that once he set foot in Singapore he was trafficking as immigration was a just a formality.

that decision came down on Wednesday. Thursday was the trial and Friday he was put to death. It was a pretty straight forward case.

 

[Anthony]

Mark it on a calendar 13 years from today (if not sooner or is killed in prison) he will be on the streets. Strongly doubt death will be a realistic factor in this one, this situation doesn't come with mandatory sentencing, and realisticaly, it was a childs crime, a temper tantrum. She's obviously a juvenile, and while he is not, he is not far away, and there are many 18 year olds who are not capable of adult level decision making. There's I'd figure a 30% chance he can be out in 5 years.

This 18 year old, legal adult brought at least two guns to the girls house, including the .40 caliber Glock he shot both parents, execution style. That sounds like premeditation to me, not a "temper tantrum". If he had grabbed a kitchen knife in a fit of rage and stabbed them to death, you might have a point. Why would he illegally bring a gun into their house if he wasn't thinking about using it?

The prosecution will ask for the death penalty. Whether he gets it or not is up to the legal process.

 

[astanley]

Singapore's justice can be interesting. It does say in big red letters on eh landing card "Death to Drug Traffickers". On one trip there I recall a person being caught at Changgi airport with heroin strapped to his body. He was on a flight that had layed over form Hong Kong to Frankfort. This happened on a Monday. On Tuesday the court heard arguments whether he was to be charged with possession or trafficking. The difference it was argued was that he had not passed through immigration therefore he was not trafficking in Singapore. The case was heard and it was decided that once he set foot in Singapore he was trafficking as immigration was a just a formality.

that decision came down on Wednesday. Thursday was the trial and Friday he was put to death. It was a pretty straight forward case.

Not trying to be contrarian or start a fight, but I wonder, does it stop drug trafficking?

I spent most of my day serving Thanksgiving to men and women who are recovering from drug and alcohol addictions, in addition to low income, homeless, and mentally ill persons at a Salvation Army near my house. On some level, you have to wonder, will the drug problem ever stop, or is it here to stay?

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Ghery]

Not trying to be contrarian or start a fight, but I wonder, does it stop drug trafficking?

Don't know, but that big warning on the immigration card coming into Singapore (and I've seen it, too) does sort of jump out at you. And they are serious.

 

[grattonja]

Thanks for the kind words, all. As you can imagine, I am not posting much on boards right now. No time. Not flying much either This too shall pass.

I have been contacted in the last work week by every national news media outlet that I have ever heard of, and some I have never seen. It is pretty weird to have the "talking heads" trying my case for me on national tv! I don't watch.

Point of order, though. Life in Pa is "life without parole". Anyone who gets that sentence does not get out. No one can remember when the last life sentence was commuted.

The death penalty is only somewhat different from that right now. Pa has only executed one quite bad guy in the last decade (that I can recall anyway). Death row inmates sit in lockdown 23.5 hours per day, alone, with a 1/2 hour exercise period. They don't even leave the cell to shower, a unit is wheeled to the door.

3rd "double homicide" death penalty case for me in a row. Gonna need to get my commercial rating or something after this is over

cheers.

Jim G

 

[ScottM]

Not trying to be contrarian or start a fight, but I wonder, does it stop drug trafficking?

I spent most of my day serving Thanksgiving to men and women who are recovering from drug and alcohol addictions, in addition to low income, homeless, and mentally ill persons at a Salvation Army near my house. On some level, you have to wonder, will the drug problem ever stop, or is it here to stay?

Cheers,

-Andrew

A legimate question. For Singapore it seems to work. Of all the countries in SE Asia that I have been to that one does not have a large drug problem.

 

[etsisk]

Thanks for the kind words, all. As you can imagine, I am not posting much on boards right now. No time. Not flying much either This too shall pass....3rd "double homicide" death penalty case for me in a row. Gonna need to get my commercial rating or something after this is over cheers.Jim G

Good luck with it, Jim - I'm a P.I. doing mostly capital murder defense investigations - it's a long tough row to hoe, no doubt. Makes sense to me for you to treat yourself to a new rating! You'll have earned it, coming and going!!

 

[John J]

Jim;

Good luck with the case

John

 

[woodstock]

good luck Jim.

 

[grattonja]

I never refuse luck! Thanks all.

Jim G

 

[Henning]

I never refuse luck! Thanks all.

Jim G

Out of curiosity, do you ever find yourself wondering, "Why am I bothering with this person?"

BTW, Since you've been wished luck, I'll wish you good health .

 

[grattonja]

Out of curiosity, do you ever find yourself wondering, "Why am I bothering with this person?"

BTW, Since you've been wished luck, I'll wish you good health .

One of the great things about my job is that I interact with people. It is hard to think about throwing someone away when you have spent time with them. It is easier to think that way when you don't get to know the person, IMO. Hence the web boards are not always the most friendly or nicest places. Yet people from the boards who go to fly-ins often really get to know and like each other.

There certainly are some unlikeable people that I have represented over time. Almost always I can find SOMETHING redeeming about them, however small.

And I'll take the good health also.

Thanks.

Jim G

 

[woodstock]

One of the great things about my job is that I interact with people. It is hard to think about throwing someone away when you have spent time with them. It is easier to think that way when you don't get to know the person, IMO. Hence the web boards are not always the most friendly or nicest places. Yet people from the boards who go to fly-ins often really get to know and like each other.

There certainly are some unlikeable people that I have represented over time. Almost always I can find SOMETHING redeeming about them, however small.

And I'll take the good health also.

Thanks.

Jim G

what a nice, positive attitude.

 

[Rudy]

Best of Luck to you Jim,

 

[jkaduk]

What I've always wondered about criminal defense is this. Does the defendant's attorney ever ask him outright: "Did you you do it"? or similar?

 

[gismo]

What I've always wondered about criminal defense is this. Does the defendant's attorney ever ask him outright: "Did you you do it"? or similar?

Per my lawyering skills acquired by watching TV you only ask that if you don't plan to put the defendant on "the stand".

 

[etsisk]

What I've always wondered about criminal defense is this. Does the defendant's attorney ever ask him outright: "Did you you do it"? or similar?

When I'm investigating a case for a defense attorney, I usually do all I can to find out what actually happened, what the deft. did that day, everything I can find out. If that includes an admission of guilt, that's fine too - the prosecution isn't going to forget that they think the guy did it!

My job is to make sure that the prosecution does THEIR job - no kangaroo courts, no pencil-whipping someone into prison. If they get convicted, and have had good representation, then we can rely on our courts. If it's bargain day for the prosecution, and they don't have to really prove the case, then we are all in a more precarious position. IMHO. YMMV.

Tom