Order of Ratings

[tonycondon]

Im pretty sure I know the answer to this question but cant remember the exact wording.

Say you get your PP-ASEL, then you get PP-AMEL, then you get IR, in a Multiengine airplane. Does your License say:

PP-ASEL
PP-AMEL-IA

Or:
PP-ASEL
PP-AMEL
IA

The underlying question is dont you have to do a checkride in both categories and classes to be able to file with both? Or am i just retarded and confused? (dont answer that...)

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

Am i just retarded and confused? (dont answer that...)

No...your just Mentally disoriented!!!!!

 

[EdFred]

It would say Mulitengine Instrument Rated
but you would NOT be rated in the SE.

Not exactly sure how it would be written, it may say SEL - VFR privlidges only. It definitely spells out that you would not have the IR for the SEL. You would need to go back and get the IA SEL

 

[wesleyj]

actually it will read Airplane Single engine land, Airplane Multi-engine Land, Instrument.

 

[Areeda]

If the question is does intrument airplane mean both single engine and multi-engine if you do the checkride in a multi but not if you do it in a single, the answer is yes. The only reference I've found is in the Examiner Handbook.

Joe

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Say you get your PP-ASEL, then you get PP-AMEL, then you get IR, in a Multiengine airplane. Does your License say:

PP-ASEL
PP-AMEL-IA

Or:
PP-ASEL
PP-AMEL
IA

The underlying question is dont you have to do a checkride in both categories and classes to be able to file with both? Or am i just retarded and confused? (dont answer that...)

There are only three instrument ratings: Instrument Airplane, Instrument Helicopter, and Instrument Powered Lift (good luck getting that one). So, the ticket will have the latter option.

If you read the Private Pilot PTS, section 2 for Airplane Multiengine Land, Area V tasks B, C and D (engine failure under the hood, approach with all engines, approach OEI) are what an instrument rated pilot needs to demonstrate on a multi checkride. If these are not demonstrated, page 2-12 says:

NOTE: For applicants electing not to demonstrate competency in TASKS B, C, and D, multiengine privileges will be limited to VFR only.

Now, the question was somewhat different... PP-ASEL, PP-AMEL, IA in that order. In the Instrument PTS, Area VII tasks B and C (OEI during straight and level and turns, and OEI approach) relate to the multi, and the intro says:

To obtain an instrument rating with multiengine privileges, an applicant must demonstrate competency in a multiengine airplane not limited to center thrust.

So, there it is. Option B. The ticket should say:

Private Pilot
Airplane Single and Multiengine Land
Instrument Airplane

And the pilot can file and fly IFR in both single and multiengine airplanes.

Gack, I found references! I should start working on MY CFI now. Sorry Ed.

 

[Henning]

Im pretty sure I know the answer to this question but cant remember the exact wording.

Say you get your PP-ASEL, then you get PP-AMEL, then you get IR, in a Multiengine airplane. Does your License say:

PP-ASEL
PP-AMEL-IA

Or:
PP-ASEL
PP-AMEL
IA

The underlying question is dont you have to do a checkride in both categories and classes to be able to file with both? Or am i just retarded and confused? (dont answer that...)

I did PPSEL then PPMEL then my IR in a 172. When I got that ticket, it said:

Private Pilot SEL MEL IA
Multi Engine Operations Restricted to VFR conditions.

When I did my CMEL ride we added in the ME IR portion that restriction was lifted.

 

[RogerT]

Mine says:
"Commercial pilot"
"Airplane single and multiengine land, Instrument Airplane"
"Rotorcraft Helicopter"

I don't have instrument privileges in a helicopter.

The order I did them:
Private Pilot
Commercial/Instrument (in ASEL) as a combined 141 course
Multi addon (141) Check ride included instrument tasks
Helicopter addon (141)

Im pretty sure I know the answer to this question but cant remember the exact wording.

Say you get your PP-ASEL, then you get PP-AMEL, then you get IR, in a Multiengine airplane. Does your License say:

PP-ASEL
PP-AMEL-IA

Or:
PP-ASEL
PP-AMEL
IA

The underlying question is dont you have to do a checkride in both categories and classes to be able to file with both? Or am i just retarded and confused? (dont answer that...)

 

[tonycondon]

OK Kent, thanks, I think my confusion came from knowing that you had to do Instrument stuff in a multi to get the VFR limitation lifted, so I figured it should be the same for a single. Apparently not. Thanks

 

[EdFred]

Hmmm, learn something new every day. Could have sworn you needed to take a ride in each one to have the rating in each one.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Hmmm, learn something new every day. Could have sworn you needed to take a ride in each one to have the rating in each one.

Understandable. The Instrument rating is the only one that doesn't need to be done in both.

 

[tonycondon]

and when ARE you going for the CFI kent?

 

[EdFred]

Understandable. The Instrument rating is the only one that doesn't need to be done in both.

It does for the Multi.

If you go VFR- SEL
VFR-MULTI

Then go back and get the IR on the SEL, it does not carry over to the multi.

 

[poadeleted20]

The Instrument rating is the only one that doesn't need to be done in both.

Actually, it usually does, but in most cases (i.e., those who already have an IR when they take their first ME ride), the ME IR tasks are included in the ME additional rating ride. It's only when you get the ME rating before the IR, and then do the IR in a single, that you end up having to take a second, albeit abbreviated, IR ride in a twin to remove the VFR-only limitation that will be applied to your ME rating upon completion of the IR ride in the single. OTOH, if you earn your IR in a twin, you need not do anything more to get SE instrument privileges.

BTW, if you have a PP-ASEL-IA and take an ME add-on, you have the option of making it a VFR-only ride. If you're taking the ME at the Commercial level (either as an initial Commercial or an additional rating), and already have an IR earned in a single, you do not have that option -- you must do the instrument tasks.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

and when ARE you going for the CFI kent?

First things first! And first must be the commercial. Since both planes I'm going to use are down with their engines torn apart right now, it's gonna be a few weeks for the ASEL stuff. Between now and then, I'm going to have my CFI give me a workout in the Seneca; CP-AMEL will probably be next unless I really get the ASEL done fast.

If I have one of the above done early enough, I could go up to KCAD to get the Comm-ASES before they take the Super Cub off floats and put it back on skis. Not sure if it'd be too fun with the colder weather though! So that one might wait until spring, which arrives sometime in July up there.

Once I have Comm-ASMEL (and maybe -ASES), then I'll start on the CFI ratings. On that... Can I do the CFI in two planes like I'll be doing with the Comm?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Actually, it usually does, but in most cases (i.e., those who already have an IR when they take their first ME ride), the ME IR tasks are included in the ME additional rating ride. It's only when you get the ME rating before the IR, and then do the IR in a single, that you end up having to take a second, albeit abbreviated, IR ride in a twin to remove the VFR-only limitation that will be applied to your ME rating upon completion of the IR ride in the single.

Ahh, semantics. What I should have said is that it's the only rating that does not *absolutely* require an additional checkride. Some situations it does, and it certainly requires extra tasks on the multi.

BTW, if you have a PP-ASEL-IA and take an ME add-on, you have the option of making it a VFR-only ride. If you're taking the ME at the Commercial level (either as an initial Commercial or an additional rating), and already have an IR earned in a single, you do not have that option -- you must do the instrument tasks.

Interesting. Like Ed said... Ya learn something new every day.

 

[tonycondon]

Kent,
Just do the MEI first if you are going to go for them all. Then you can do the CFI and CFII in a 172 or something, get the complex requirement out of the way. Heck could even do it in the supercub on skis this winter! Now that would be awesome!

 

[gismo]

Hmmm, learn something new every day. Could have sworn you needed to take a ride in each one to have the rating in each one.

Not only that, but if you are instrument current in one you are legally instrument current in the other (ASEL and AMEL)

 

[gismo]

Kent,
Just do the MEI first if you are going to go for them all. Then you can do the CFI and CFII in a 172 or something, get the complex requirement out of the way. Heck could even do it in the supercub on skis this winter! Now that would be awesome!

I did the AMEL commercial (including instrument) before getting rated for ASEL commercial. That allowed me to take the ASEL comm in the simple taildragger I have. No radios, no electrical system, nothing more than ASI, altimeter, and compass for flight instruments. The systems portion of the ASEL comm oral to be rather short.

 

[tonycondon]

Didnt you have trouble getting your pivotal altitude for eights on pylons to be above 500 AGL Lance?

 

[poadeleted20]

Can I do the CFI in two planes like I'll be doing with the Comm?

Yes, you can, but it makes the test longer and more difficult, since you must be able to teach all systems and procedures on both planes.

 

[gismo]

Didnt you have trouble getting your pivotal altitude for eights on pylons to be above 500 AGL Lance?

Yes indeed. I used the tops of tall silos and full throttle. Fortunately there's plenty of sparsely populated areas around here. The "steep" descendign spiral was a bit of a challenge as well given my turning radius and lousy climb performance.