Ophiuchus?? I am Ophiuchus NOW!

ScottM

ScottM

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iBazinga!
http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=13828331

I guess when you have a make believe science like astrology you can change it at will without any real reason. But this is just weird. Now that I am of the sign Ophiuchus maybe I should figure out what that means when I am asked 'what's your sign.'

Astronomer Parke Kunkle says that due to changes in the Earth's alignment the dates of many zodiac signs have changed, according to NBC. In addition, there may be a 13th Zodiac sign: Ophiuchus.
Kunkle says that as the Earth and Sun slowly move the signs gradually change, as expected.
The change didn't happen over night either. The 12 signs were designated to different periods of the year almost 3,000 years ago, when astrology began, and since then the Earth's position in relation to the sun has changed.
While the sign many people were born under may now be different, it shouldn't affect horoscope readings, according to NBC.
See if your Zodiac sign has changed below.
The New Dates:
Story continues below



Capricorn: Jan. 20 - Feb. 16
Aquarius: Feb. 16 - March 11
Pisces: March 11- April 18
Aries: April 18 - May 13
Taurus: May 13 - June 21
Gemini: June 21 - July 20
Cancer: July 20 - Aug. 10
Leo: Aug. 10 - Sept. 16
Virgo: Sept. 16 - Oct. 30
Libra: Oct. 30 - Nov. 23
Scorpio: Nov. 23 - Nov. 29
Ophiuchus: Nov. 29 - Dec. 17
Sagittarius: Dec. 17 - Jan. 20
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I gotta call BS on this. Ain't no way this Taurus is going to accept being some wooly-haired sheep! Aries? Are you kidding me??? NFW!!!!!!!!!!!!


Man, at least horoscopes won't be affected. I was worried that I would lose all guidance for my daily life. Phew!
 
Now I am more Taurus than Gemini, more bull than twin. Strange.
 
I'm not going to accept being a single-engined vehicle produced by Ford. I'll stick to being a twin. :D
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm not going to accept being a single-engined vehicle produced by Ford. I'll stick to being a twin. :D
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You think you have it bad???????

THey're trying to turn me into a K-Car for CRISSAKES!!!!!!!:incazzato:
 
I just revised my birthdate in order to remain a Sag.
 
Did your personality change immediately when you found out?

It should.

You know that when they discovered the new planet - and now we've lost Pluto and there are two new planets - the astrologers said that they'd have to recalculate the astrological charts, of course. It's not like the planets were always there or anything. :dunno:
 
"...the Earth's position in relation to the sun has changed."

What's that supposed to mean? The day our position doesn't change is when I'll worry.
 
Pi1otguy said:
"...the Earth's position in relation to the sun has changed."

What's that supposed to mean? The day our position doesn't change is when I'll worry.
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It's the orientation of Earth's axis of rotation. It precesses slowly, which causes the location of the Earth (relative to the background stars) during the equinoxes and solstices to change slowly from year to year. Incidentally, there's nothing new about this - it's been known for a long time that the equinoxes and solstices have precessed into other constellations. We tell students that in every one of our intro astronomy classes in the bit where we make fun of astrology.
 
Change of plans. The missus said I should go ahead with the new sign, since it sorta' rhymes with obstreporous.
 
Well, it was what it was when I was born so I am what I was.... huh?
 
Christ...Astronomers have known this forever...the ecliptic passes through the tail end of Ophiuchus, always has...well...for quite a while, things move around due to precession of the Earth's axis and such...wait, no...the ecliptic doesn't really shift with precession, the celestial equator moves, so the "First Point of Aries" (it's where Right Assention begins) where the ecliptic crosses the equator is actually in Pices now IIRC, but the actual plane of the ecliptic is one of the more stable features.
 
chucky said:
It's the orientation of Earth's axis of rotation. It precesses slowly, which causes the location of the Earth (relative to the background stars) during the equinoxes and solstices to change slowly from year to year. Incidentally, there's nothing new about this - it's been known for a long time that the equinoxes and solstices have precessed into other constellations. We tell students that in every one of our intro astronomy classes in the bit where we make fun of astrology.
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But precession does not change the plane of the ecliptic, which is defined by the Earth's orbital plane, not by the tilt of the axis.

It was more fun making fun of astrologers when Pluto was still a planet, it goes all OVER the place, way offset from the ecliptic unlike the rest of the planets.
 
JeffDG said:
But precession does not change the plane of the ecliptic, which is defined by the Earth's orbital plane, not by the tilt of the axis.
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Well, the term ecliptic generally refers to the circle on the Earth's sky that the orbital plane makes. The orientation of this circle and the location of the nodes (that is, the intersection of this circle with the equatorial plane) are determined by the orientation of the Earth's axis of rotation relative to the orbital plane. The ecliptic makes an angle of 23 degrees with the plane of the equator - this is the angle that the Earth's rotation axis makes with the orbital plane (or rather, with the normal of that plane). If the angle of the rotation axis changes, say to 10 degrees off vertical, then the angle of the plane of the ecliptic will change to 10 degrees. I'm not sure how much the angle of that axis changes. Precession affects things in the following way. Consider the summer solstice (northern hemisphere). This is defined as the day with the longest daylight period, which occurs when the axis of rotation is most nearly pointing at the Sun. There are 12 constellations along the ecliptic - the Sun will be superimposed on one of them, and that determines the day's astrological sign. If the axis of rotation does not change in any way, each year the solstice will occur at the same point with respect to the background stars (this frame of reference is called the sidereal frame of reference) and that day will have the same astrological sign. As the axis precesses, however, the sidereal position of the Sun at the solstice changes slowly. Our calendar is solar rather than sidereal, so it actually takes the precession in to account.




I'm really popular at parties, you can imagine.
 
chucky said:
Well, the term ecliptic generally refers to the circle on the Earth's sky that the orbital plane makes. The orientation of this circle and the location of the nodes (that is, the intersection of this circle with the equatorial plane) are determined by the orientation of the Earth's axis of rotation relative to the orbital plane. The ecliptic makes an angle of 23 degrees with the plane of the equator - this is the angle that the Earth's rotation axis makes with the orbital plane (or rather, with the normal of that plane). If the angle of the rotation axis changes, say to 10 degrees off vertical, then the angle of the plane of the ecliptic will change to 10 degrees. I'm not sure how much the angle of that axis changes. Precession affects things in the following way. Consider the summer solstice (northern hemisphere). This is defined as the day with the longest daylight period, which occurs when the axis of rotation is most nearly pointing at the Sun. There are 12 constellations along the ecliptic - the Sun will be superimposed on one of them, and that determines the day's astrological sign. If the axis of rotation does not change in any way, each year the solstice will occur at the same point with respect to the background stars (this frame of reference is called the sidereal frame of reference) and that day will have the same astrological sign. As the axis precesses, however, the sidereal position of the Sun at the solstice changes slowly. Our calendar is solar rather than sidereal, so it actually takes the precession in to account.



.
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You're not shltting us, are you?
 
chucky said:
Well, the term ecliptic generally refers to the circle on the Earth's sky that the orbital plane makes. The orientation of this circle and the location of the nodes (that is, the intersection of this circle with the equatorial plane) are determined by the orientation of the Earth's axis of rotation relative to the orbital plane. The ecliptic makes an angle of 23 degrees with the plane of the equator - this is the angle that the Earth's rotation axis makes with the orbital plane (or rather, with the normal of that plane). If the angle of the rotation axis changes, say to 10 degrees off vertical, then the angle of the plane of the ecliptic will change to 10 degrees. I'm not sure how much the angle of that axis changes. Precession affects things in the following way. Consider the summer solstice (northern hemisphere). This is defined as the day with the longest daylight period, which occurs when the axis of rotation is most nearly pointing at the Sun. There are 12 constellations along the ecliptic - the Sun will be superimposed on one of them, and that determines the day's astrological sign. If the axis of rotation does not change in any way, each year the solstice will occur at the same point with respect to the background stars (this frame of reference is called the sidereal frame of reference) and that day will have the same astrological sign. As the axis precesses, however, the sidereal position of the Sun at the solstice changes slowly. Our calendar is solar rather than sidereal, so it actually takes the precession in to account.




I'm really popular at parties, you can imagine.
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But none of that changes the constellations through which the ecliptic passes, and that plane is what defines the zodiac.

The celestial equator moves in relation to the ecliptic, but the ecliptic still passes through the same 13 constellations, regardless of where the first point of Aries happens to lie.

As the axis precesses, the declination of the solstice can change, and the first point of Aries (RA 0) moves, but the summer solstice always occurs at a RA of 6h and the winter at 18h.
 
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JeffDG said:
But none of that changes the constellations through which the ecliptic passes, and that plane is what defines the zodiac.

The celestial equator moves in relation to the ecliptic, but the ecliptic still passes through the same 13 constellations, regardless of where the first point of Aries happens to lie.

As the axis precesses, the declination of the solstice can change, and the first point of Aries (RA 0) moves, but the summer solstice always occurs at a RA of 6h and the winter at 18h.
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Yes, you're correct that the plane of the ecliptic is fixed with respect to the background stars, which means that it's always the same constellations. And you are also correct that the celestial equator is moving with respect to the background stars. All of this is to say, our celestial coordinate system moves as the Earth's axis precesses. The change in the astrological signs is because of this change in coordinate system. Our calendar is tied to that coordinate system. I think we're in agreement here.

Note that the plane of the Earth's orbit does change as well, but I believe that's a much smaller effect.

wabower said:
You're not shltting us, are you?
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Well......:D
 
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JeffDG said:
Nope...but the closest guess so far...

The answer is October, 1582, which only had 21 days.
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That's country-specific. The British Empire (including what is now the US) had a September in 1752 that was only 19.
 
chucky said:
...
I'm really popular at parties, you can imagine.
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attachment.php

MY BRAIN HURTS!

Seriously, I've always wondered why the earth's orbit and the planets orbit is (mostly) in the same plane. It must be proof that the Sun and planets all spun out from a single hunk of matter...but I'm not a good enough typist to find out in a text discussion.
 

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Hmmmm......Yep.....Looks like I'm still a............Republican.


:D
 
mikea said:
Seriously, I've always wondered why the earth's orbit and teh planets orbit is (mostly) int he same plane. It must be proof that the Sun and planets all spun out from a single hunk of matter...but I'm not a good enough typist to find out in a text discussion.
Click to expand...

That's the current theory - a big cloud of gas and dust collapses to form the Sun. As it does so, the angular momentum flattens it out in to a disk. At the center, gravitational forces make a roughly spherical shape that becomes the Sun, while the disk (called a proto-stellar disk, for obvious reasons) begins to fragment. Big chunks of stuff start to form and sweep up all the matter around them. These are what become the planets. One caution here: the recent discovery of extra-solar planetary systems has shown us that the formation and evolution of planetary systems is far more complicated than we previously thought. The basic formation model above hasn't been called in to question (yet) but there's clearly a great deal we don't understand about the origin of planets.

Also, I see your Flying Circus, and raise you a Meaning of Life.
 
When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius!
 
chucky said:
That's the current theory - a big cloud of gas and dust collapses to form the Sun. As it does so, the angular momentum flattens it out in to a disk. At the center, gravitational forces make a roughly spherical shape that becomes the Sun, while the disk (called a proto-stellar disk, for obvious reasons) begins to fragment. Big chunks of stuff start to form and sweep up all the matter around them. These are what become the planets. One caution here: the recent discovery of extra-solar planetary systems has shown us that the formation and evolution of planetary systems is far more complicated than we previously thought. The basic formation model above hasn't been called in to question (yet) but there's clearly a great deal we don't understand about the origin of planets.
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I think the distinction between how our solar system works and other exo-solar systems that are discovered will come down to the good-ol-anthropic principle...

If planets form in wildly divergent planes, then the system is chaotic to the point that the chance of life developing, let alone intelligent life evolving, will be incredibly small...so we of course showed up in a stable system!
 
Yes, I think that's true. The big question in exoplanet science today is if solar systems like ours are the exception or the rule. If there are all kinds of Earths spinning around all kinds of Sun-like stars.....
 
I love Merle Haggard songs.

gprellwitz said:
When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius!
Click to expand...
 
I've moved TWO signs? From Scorpio all the way to Virgo??? Not a chance! I like the whole scorpion thing.
 
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