Open Pilot Questions

[ChemGuy]

When they specify hours in type or make/model is that Cessna 172 or Piper PA 28, or does it go to Cessna 172S vs 172N time and PA28-180 vs PA28-236 time?

Anyone offer some guidance or consensus on this? No real specific example but curious how the ins companies look at model?

Thanks,
Dan

'79 Dakota

 

[champ driver]

All Cessna 172's are pretty much the same in the eyes of the insurance company, now if it's a retract, that's quite different. I would think that they would lump all PA-28's the same.
Don't worry about the specific model differences, can you tell me the difference between the 172S versus 172N? Neither could I.

 

[Timmer]

All Cessna 172's are pretty much the same in the eyes of the insurance company, now if it's a retract, that's quite different. I would think that they would lump all PA-28's the same.
Don't worry about the specific model differences, can you tell me the difference between the 172S versus 172N? Neither could I.

Fuel injection, 180hp, heavier controls, nicer seats and seatbelts, 10 additional fuel drains to check.

 

[Sac Arrow]

When they specify hours in type or make/model is that Cessna 172 or Piper PA 28, or does it go to Cessna 172S vs 172N time and PA28-180 vs PA28-236 time?

Anyone offer some guidance or consensus on this? No real specific example but curious how the ins companies look at model?

Thanks,
Dan

'79 Dakota

As far as the insurance companies go, the series for the same model isn't important, what matters is if it's over 200 hp, and more importantly if it's a retract.

For example, all my Turbo Arrow III time is the same as my Arrow II time for their purposes. They count it as the same make and model.

 

[flyingron]

My friend who's an ex-U-2 pilot wanted to fly my Navion. My open pilot clause requires 25 hours of retract time. I asked him whether having the wheels fall off your plane qualifies as retract time.

 

[AggieMike88]

My friend who's an ex-U-2 pilot wanted to fly my Navion. My open pilot clause requires 25 hours of retract time. I asked him whether having the wheels fall off your plane qualifies as retract time.

Doesn't the centerline wheel retract?

(applies Google Fu)

Found the flight manual.... it does retract.

 

[poadeleted20]

For insurance purposes, it's entirely up to the insurer who wrote the policy, and what one insurer says may not be the same for another. If it's an issue for you, ask your insurer.

 

[MAKG1]

can you tell me the difference between the 172S versus 172N? Neither could I.

The 172S is heavier, has 30 deg flaps instead of 40 and 180 HP injected engine instead of 160 HP carbureted. The fuel tanks are larger. It is much less prone to intake ice than a 172N. The starting procedure is different. It has 13 sumps to be checked, instead of 3. It comes standard with either a VFR GPS or G1000, and KAP140 autopilot. 172Ns have none of that standard (but add-ons are common).

If you can't name these differences, you really do need a checkout, whether insurance requires it or not.

 

[champ driver]

The 172S is heavier, has 30 deg flaps instead of 40 and 180 HP injected engine instead of 160 HP carbureted. The fuel tanks are larger. It is much less prone to intake ice than a 172N. The starting procedure is different. It has 13 sumps to be checked, instead of 3. It comes standard with either a VFR GPS or G1000, and KAP140 autopilot. 172Ns have none of that standard (but add-ons are common).

If you can't name these differences, you really do need a checkout, whether insurance requires it or not.

I believe the OP is asking about filling out insurance forms requiring time in type/model. In this case lump all the 172 time together and don't worry about breaking it down by model number. He's asking about insurance paper work, not the differences needing a checkout.

 

[ChemGuy]

For insurance purposes, it's entirely up to the insurer who wrote the policy, and what one insurer says may not be the same for another. If it's an issue for you, ask your insurer.

That's what I figured. Seems like a PA28-160 is different enough from my Dakota that they might not be the same for insurance.

 

[hook_dupin]

I bought Log Ten Pro just to be able to answer all the insurance time questions....

 

[warthog1984]

That's what I figured. Seems like a PA28-160 is different enough from my Dakota that they might not be the same for insurance.

One's HP, one's not- separate out the time. Same as 172 vs 172RG- two different planes. Otoh, the difference between between a pa-28-140, pa-28-160, and a pa-28-181 is tiny- lump it all as Cherokee time.

 

[flyingron]

Doesn't the centerline wheel retract?

(applies Google Fu)

Found the flight manual.... it does retract.

Yeah, Gary pointed that out to me. Both the centerline main wheel and the tail wheel retract in addition to the pogos falling off. I just like to give him a hard time. He started his AF career flying B-52's, moved to U-2, and ended up flying Cessna 182's (CAP corporate).

 

[poadeleted20]

I believe the OP is asking about filling out insurance forms requiring time in type/model. In this case lump all the 172 time together and don't worry about breaking it down by model number. He's asking about insurance paper work,...

Correct, and what champ driver says about what they want may or may not be true -- only way to find out is to ask the insurer.

BTW, this gets even more significant when we're talking about glass panel aircraft, e.g., a steam gauge SR22 vs a G1000 SR22. Many insurers require special checkouts or prior glass panel experience for glass panel airplanes. Thus, even if have 1000 hours of 172 experience, if it's all in steam gauge models and you're looking to get insured in a G1000 172R/S, expect them to require some G1000 training.

 

[poadeleted20]

One's HP, one's not- separate out the time. Same as 172 vs 172RG- two different planes. Otoh, the difference between between a pa-28-140, pa-28-160, and a pa-28-181 is tiny- lump it all as Cherokee time.

And yet, IIRC, someone posted here some time back about an insurer requiring an Archer checkout despite prior Warrior time. Ask your insurer before you fill out the form, because outside Liberty Mutual's special automotive policies (for which you pay extra), forgiveness is not part of their program.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Umm, from the tenor of the question, it sounds like you're asking about the Open Pilot Warrantee requirements. Just remember that even if the hours are met, it only means the policy owner has coverage. It doesn't necessarily mean the warranted pilot has cover.

Read the policy.