One dead cell. Gill batt

D

docmirror

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Cowboy - yeehah!
I've never had any luck once a cell goes bad. I've vacuumed out as much of the electrolyte as I can remove, and I"m recharging with fresh acid. Hoping it'll come back but don't hold a lot of hope. Batt is only 2 years and 7 months old. Grrrrr.
 
flooded cell batteries are obsolete for most uses. Go buy an AGM and you'll never look back.
 
Good luck never had much luck ,reviving a battery with a dead cell.
 
Pretty typical lifespan for a Gil from my experience. There is a reason I don't use them in my personal aircraft!
 
docmirror said:
I've never had any luck once a cell goes bad. I've vacuumed out as much of the electrolyte as I can remove, and I"m recharging with fresh acid. Hoping it'll come back but don't hold a lot of hope. Batt is only 2 years and 7 months old. Grrrrr.
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Have you thought about why a sulfate bridge won't be broken chemically???
 
A sulfate bridge might be cleared electrically, but it's also possible the plates got warped
 
N801BH said:
Yup..
Gotta love Optima batteries...:yes:
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Mine went dead. Guy across from me with an RV6 has two dead ones on the shelf. Batteries need to be looked after and maintained. I don't care what brand you have. Optimas aren't any better than most of the others. I'd go with a Concorde.
 
Bunk. Odyssey batteries are far and away superior to flooded batteries and require no trickle charge in average temperatures where no parasite load is present. I routinely leave planes all winter and start them in spring with no attention to the battery, including a big TCM 520 with a little jetski battery on the firewall. My first one lived through an intermittent alternator and lasted 11 years before I replaced it. And the old battery still works great 5 years after removal from the airplane.
 
Stewartb said:
Bunk. Odyssey batteries are far and away superior to flooded batteries and require no trickle charge in average temperatures where no parasite load is present. I routinely leave planes all winter and start them in spring with no attention to the battery, including a big TCM 520 with a little jetski battery on the firewall. My first one lived through an intermittent alternator and lasted 11 years before I replaced it. And the old battery still works great 5 years after removal from the airplane.
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Agree.....

Odyssey's just about bullet proof and that is what you will find in RV planes..

http://www.odysseybattery.com/

I run the Optima car size ( 1000 CCA ) since I have to start 400HP that is running 10.4-1 compression....

http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/products/?gclid=CILgxZjemcgCFUVffgodUygNag
 
Well.... I speak from the Experimental ( dark) side of things.... I have owned several certified planes and I NEVER want to see a 337, STC , PMA etc etc... Ever again.... Been there, done that....
 
As far as batteries go you can install and/or relocate a lead-acid battery of your choice and an IA can sign it off without FAA involvement as long as you follow the rules.


1004. AIRCRAFT STORAGE BATTERY DESIGN AND INSTALLATION.
a. Lead Acid.
(1) Each aircraft storage battery, whether approved to a Technical Standards Order (TSO) or not, must be designed as required by regulation and installed as prescribed by the manufacturer
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https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol....cfm/go/document.information/documentID/74417[/QUOTE]
 
flyingron said:
A sulfate bridge might be cleared electrically, but it's also possible the plates got warped
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Yes. Given that it is one (and apparently only one) dead cell (and not a general reduction in capacity) it would seem likely that the plates warped or enough lead has accumulated in the bottom to short out that one cell (turn it upside down and shake it out...).
 
docmirror said:
I don't see an aviation application for either of those brands.
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I speak from the "experimental" side of things...

All you guys with FAA certified planes are stuck with outdated, ancient technology...:redface::sad:
 
N801BH said:
I speak from the "experimental" side of things...

All you guys with FAA certified planes are stuck with outdated, ancient technology...:redface::sad:
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Concorde offers an AGM solution, so no - the technology isn't the barrier, just that those vendors don't play in av. As far as I know, Concorde is the sole vendor of AGM, which as you might guess is bad for pricing.
 
Stewartb said:
Bunk. Odyssey batteries are far and away superior to flooded batteries and require no trickle charge in average temperatures where no parasite load is present. I routinely leave planes all winter and start them in spring with no attention to the battery, including a big TCM 520 with a little jetski battery on the firewall. My first one lived through an intermittent alternator and lasted 11 years before I replaced it. And the old battery still works great 5 years after removal from the airplane.
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I can say the same thing for the Concorde I had. My Oddessey died, maybe there was something wrong with it. The replacement has held up okay for a year now. I do like them, I want it to work.
 
docmirror said:
I don't see an aviation application for either of those brands.
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Read post 13 and take your blinders off! The flexibility to install and relocate batteries in a certificated plane is in the written regs. Some mechanics are reluctant to do anything without a PMA or STC but the regs don't restrict you to that.
 
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Whelp - I just got off the phone with my local FSDO rep, and as far as nonTSO/PMA batts go, he said 'nope. It will not be approved as a modification, unless there is an STC on file or it's part of the original TCDS.' I know what the part 43 statement says, and I discussed what it says, and he does not approve: Car type batteries, motorcycle batteries, lawn tractor batteries, and other similar batteries that are not TSO/PMA approved.

Sorry, but that's what the man said. Maybe other FSDO reps are different, but mine will not approve it and the IA will not sign off a 337 unless I can find one that's been installed, use the same exact brand, and the 337 is already on file.

So, if there is a 337 on file, with a AGM non-TSO/PMA batt, I sure would like to see it.
 
You seem to have missed the "without FAA involvement" part of Stewartb's post.
 
When I built my PA-12 I asked for many approvals. Some were turned down and I became frustrated. My FAA guy told me sometimes he can't approve things but that doesn't mean I can't do them. You don't need permission to install an Odyssey battery. Guys in Alaska have been doing it per the AC for years.
 
Silvaire said:
You seem to have missed the "without FAA involvement" part of Stewartb's post.
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If you are an IA, and are willing to fill out the 337, sign it, and give me two copies, I'm willing to compensate you for the work. We will then let the corn head through the goose, and see what we see.

If you are intimating that I toss any golf cart battery in there, and be on my merry way, well - thank you, no.
 
I guess, since a pilot can service the storage battery, I could in fact toss anything in there, log it in the book myself, and call it a day. However, at annual time, that battery is coming out, and a PMA/TSO battery is going in, or it will not pass annual. Sounds like self-defeating process to me, and I'm not one who is a stickler for regs, but this dog just won't hunt for me in this situation.
 
For the guys who are curious about the regs in question here's the opening paragraph from AC 43.13-2B.

1. PURPOSE.

This advisory circular (AC) contains methods, techniques, and practices acceptable to the Administrator for the inspection and alteration on non-pressurized areas of civil aircraft of 12,500 lbs gross weight or less. This AC is for use by mechanics, repair stations, and other certificated entities. This data generally pertains to minor alterations; however, the alteration data herein may be used as approved data for major alterations when the AC chapter, page, and paragraph are listed in block 8 of FAA Form 337 when the user has determined that it is:
a. Appropriate to the product being altered,
b. Directly applicable to the alteration being made, and
c. Not contrary to manufacturer’s data.
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docmirror said:
Concorde offers an AGM solution, so no - the technology isn't the barrier, just that those vendors don't play in av. As far as I know, Concorde is the sole vendor of AGM, which as you might guess is bad for pricing.
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Unless Gill got out of the AGM market in the last year or so, Concorde isn't the only supplier of AGM aircraft batteries. Just an FYI that there is another manufacturer out there.
 
mondtster said:
Unless Gill got out of the AGM market in the last year or so, Concorde isn't the only supplier of AGM aircraft batteries. Just an FYI that there is another manufacturer out there.
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Nothing for my model except VRLA, but they do make some.
 
I insist on a reliable battery in my airplane so I use the dry-cell SBS-J-16

However, I did find a use for the old gill battery, here's a photo.
 

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docmirror said:
If you are an IA, and are willing to fill out the 337, sign it, and give me two copies, I'm willing to compensate you for the work. We will then let the corn head through the goose, and see what we see.

If you are intimating that I toss any golf cart battery in there, and be on my merry way, well - thank you, no.
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I was being sarcastic since the IA is issued by the FAA it is completely impossible to do anything "without FAA involvement" but most IA's are overly conservative and if you call the FSDO with a question you're 90% sure not to get the answer you're looking for - if you're lucky enough to get an answer out of them at all. They should not be used as a preliminary source, they should be the last one you ask when all else fails.

In this case, for instance, why are you filling out a 337? Who said this was a major alteration?
 
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